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To: x

“That is what aggressors usually say.”

Is it? Someone points a gun at your head, and you knock it away; are you the aggressor because you physically struck at the other fellow? Perhaps, in California in 2017 a court would find you the aggressor, and the gun-wielding fellow the victim (though, in California they’d find him guilty of gun possession, which in California is the ultimate evil).

Also, remember that on the evening of April 11, 1861 the federal ship Harriet Lane fired on the steamship Nashville, which was just outside Charleston Harbor. That preceded the bombardment of Fort Sumter by almost a day. Then again, a cadet unit from the Citadel fired on the federal ship Star of the West as it entered Charleston Harbor to resupply Sumter, and that was in January, 1861! Perhaps that was the first shot of the war.

That is the wonderful thing about history: We can “fight it out” years later, sitting in the comfort of our homes, a cocktail in hand, and know the most serious physical threat we will face is tripping over the sleeping dog at our feet when we get up to go to the bathroom.

The Civil War was the greatest tragedy ever to befall our nation, and there is enough blame to go around. What is scary is that today we are more divided than we were in 1860 and 1861. Perhaps “divided” is not quite accurate, because it assumes just two sides; I think “fractured” is more appropriate, as there are so many factions now, each with competing interests and allegiances, which is far more dangerous.

I enjoy the discussions.


48 posted on 02/21/2017 4:38:58 PM PST by ought-six (Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
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To: ought-six
Aggressors do talk that way, but I don't want to name any names at this point (Godwin's Law).

One little fort is a gun to the head of the Big Confederacy? I don't think so.

Also, remember that on the evening of April 11, 1861 the federal ship Harriet Lane fired on the steamship Nashville, which was just outside Charleston Harbor.

It sounds like that was a warning shot -- an intentional miss -- to get the ship to stop and identify itself. When we say "first shot" we're usually talking about something more.

What is scary is that today we are more divided than we were in 1860 and 1861. Perhaps “divided” is not quite accurate, because it assumes just two sides; I think “fractured” is more appropriate, as there are so many factions now, each with competing interests and allegiances, which is far more dangerous.

If one issue deeply divides the country it can be worse than if people are divided in different ways by different issues.

Right now if somebody wanted to secede based on one issue -- sanctuary cities, say -- they'd have to face the fact that people in their own part of the country were divided on other issues (and some in the other part of the country might well agree with the seceders on that one issue).

Back then, you had solid blocs agreeing about slavery and not caring about other issues. People were willing to follow Davis and didn't quibble about his views on other things.

49 posted on 02/21/2017 5:01:13 PM PST by x
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To: ought-six; x; PeaRidge; rockrr
ought-six: "Someone points a gun at your head, and you knock it away; are you the aggressor because you physically struck at the other fellow?"

In 1860 Fort Sumter was not a gun pointed at anybody, it was incomplete & unmanned.
A tiny US Army garrison was stationed nearby and fled to Fort Sumter to escape capture by South Carolina militia.
Some claimed that escape was against orders, but regardless, those few Union troops had no orders to be a "gun" pointed at Charleston.
Nor would their commander, a Southerner,Major Anderson, allow such a thing.
So Confederate fears were greatly overblown.

Regardless, the Deep South public demanded action against the Fort, demands which Jefferson Davis could ignore only to his own political peril.
And besides, Virginia was balanced politically on a knife's edge between Union & secession, and needed only some act of war to push them into the Confederacy.
And along with Virginia, the entire Upper South and perhaps even Border South states.

In early April, 1861, the Confederacy was rapidly raising an army of 100,000 to oppose the Union's 16,000 man US Army, most posted in small forts out west.
Clearly, for Davis in April 1861, the benefits of war outweighed any risks.

"And the war came"

63 posted on 02/26/2017 5:09:55 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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