Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

On this date in 1865

Posted on 02/17/2017 4:07:25 AM PST by Bull Snipe

Troops in the Army of the Tennessee, under the Command of General Oliver O.Howard, entered Columbia, South Carolina. For the next three days, a rampage of destruction by the Union Army soldiers resulted in two thirds of the city being destroyed. General Howard's forces were part of General William T.Sherman's Armies advancing North from Savannah, Georgia.


TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-63 next last
To: Bull Snipe

The difference is Japanese war criminals were tried and convicted. None of the treasonous Southerners were ever tried for taking up arms against the US.


21 posted on 02/17/2017 3:40:38 PM PST by jmacusa (Election 2016. The Battle of Midway for The Democrat Party.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: jmacusa

Ever hear of Henry Wirz. He was convicted of and hanged for war crimes committed at Andersonville Prisoner of War Camp in Georgia.


22 posted on 02/17/2017 3:55:11 PM PST by Bull Snipe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: x

The quote haunted Sheridan during his life. He denies making the statement, and there is no real documented proof that he did. But history has married him to that statement.


23 posted on 02/17/2017 3:57:24 PM PST by Bull Snipe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Bull Snipe

Yes I know who German immigrant Henry Wirz was. Jeff Davis and Robert E. Lee faced zero consequences for their actions.


24 posted on 02/17/2017 4:02:58 PM PST by jmacusa (Election 2016. The Battle of Midway for The Democrat Party.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: jmacusa

Wirz was Swiss.


25 posted on 02/17/2017 4:10:21 PM PST by Bull Snipe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Bull Snipe
Germanic in any event but to my point Davis and Lee were let of Scot free as was the entire Confederate Army. In retrospect Lincoln knew the country had had enough of bloodshed and trauma and it's a testament to his often reviled character that he said to Grant as he was leaving to take Lee's surrender at Appomattox "Let them up easy''.
26 posted on 02/17/2017 4:16:40 PM PST by jmacusa (Election 2016. The Battle of Midway for The Democrat Party.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: ought-six; Flintlock; StoneWall Brigade; x; Bull Snipe; rockrr
ought-six: "...Lincoln was planning to militarily “bring back” the seceded states regardless."

At the time, the only such plan Lincoln had was General Scott's "Anaconda Plan", which had first been developed to deal with Southern rebellion under President Pierce's Secretary of War, a gentleman named... yes, Jefferson Davis.

Regardless, on February 18, 1861 that same Jefferson Davis promised he would make war if the "integrity" of the Confederacy was "assailed".
On March 4, Abraham Lincoln promised he would not "assail" and so the Confederacy could not have a war unless they themselves started it.

On April 12, Jefferson Davis decided that Abraham Lincoln's resupply mission to Union troops in Union Fort Sumter "assailed" Confederate "integrity" and so Davis assaulted Fort Sumter, the assault Lincoln took as an Act of War against the United States.

The fact is the Confederacy could have avoided war over Fort Sumter in the same manner US Founders avoided war over many British forts in US states & territories after 1783: by not impulsively attacking those forts and instead relying on patient, decades long diplomacy to resolve them.

ought-six: "Lincoln would have initiated military action even if Sumter had not been bombarded.
Lincoln wanted the Southern revenues above all else."

Total revisionist nonsense.
In fact, even before Lincoln's inauguration, the Confederacy called up 100,000 troops to oppose the US Army of barely 16,000 with most of those scattered in small forts out west.
So Lincoln had neither ability nor intention to start military actions.
Like previous President Buchanan, all Lincoln wanted before Fort Sumter (April 12) was to hold & resupply those few remaining Federal assets in the Confederacy.

Of course, many Confederates chose to view both Buchanan's and Lincoln's resupply missions as "assailing" Confederate "integrity" and so Davis responded at Fort Sumter as he had promised on February 18.
With that assault, Davis met Lincoln's criteria for starting war, and so, as he promised on March 4, "the war came".

As for those Federal revenues which so excite pro-Confederate revisionists, careful study shows that Federal revenues did indeed fall a little in 1861, but that it had no effect on government operations and after Congress adjusted taxes, revenues grew hugely throughout the Civil War.
So revenues were not the great factor revisionists propose.
What really mattered to Lincoln was his Oath of Office, and the Confederacy's war, provoked, started, declared & waged against the United States.

27 posted on 02/18/2017 5:23:25 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: rustbucket

Ping


28 posted on 02/18/2017 5:38:32 AM PST by StoneWall Brigade
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BroJoeK

Thanks. Good comment.


29 posted on 02/18/2017 11:22:22 AM PST by Bull Snipe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: x

“Him and what army?”

He would not have had any difficulty raising an army. Remember, back in those days an army of 75,000 troops was considered large. But what he was really banking on was the navy, and blockading the South (a blockade is an act of war).


30 posted on 02/18/2017 9:11:56 PM PST by ought-six (Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: BroJoeK

Too funny. I guess that explains Lincoln’s initial comment re: secession: “But what’s to become of my revenues?”


31 posted on 02/18/2017 9:15:30 PM PST by ought-six (Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: ought-six

Except that Lincoln never said that.


32 posted on 02/18/2017 9:19:32 PM PST by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: rockrr

You again.


33 posted on 02/18/2017 9:31:39 PM PST by ought-six (Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: ought-six; BroJoeK; DoodleDawg
He would not have had any difficulty raising an army. Remember, back in those days an army of 75,000 troops was considered large. But what he was really banking on was the navy, and blockading the South (a blockade is an act of war).

Northerners only wanted war because the Confederates fired first.

Nobody was willing to fight if it meant firing the first shot.

Even if Lincoln had gone against his word and actually started a war it wouldn't have lasted beyond the first few union defeats.

A naval blockade was a possibility, I guess.

If Confederates wanted to call that an act of war, lose their cool, and start shooting it could have had the same effect as Sumter.

How about instead of blaming Lincoln for everything that happened you look into the major incompetence and saber-rattling of Davis and those on his side?

They wanted war. They got it. Then they decided they didn't like the war they got.

No returns. No exchanges. No do-overs.

34 posted on 02/19/2017 1:10:01 PM PST by x
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: ought-six; rockrr; x
ought-six: "I guess that explains Lincoln’s initial comment re: secession: 'But what’s to become of my revenues?' "

Nothing confirms such a comment relating to war against the Confederacy.
In fact, Federal revenues did fall in 1861, by 11% from $56 million in 1860 to $50 million, then rose 21% in 1862 and doubled in each of the following years.
So Federal government revenues were in no way the major issue they quickly became in the Confederacy.

35 posted on 02/19/2017 3:20:37 PM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: x

Prior to the bombardment of Fort Sumter on April 12, 1861 Lincoln sought to provision and reinforce the fort via naval means. To that end, he dispatched part of the federal fleet to Charleston Harbor. Remember, Sumter was located in the middle of Charleston Harbor, and thus it commanded the passages into the interior harbor and port. As such, it could easily have interdicted Southern commerce by closing down a Southern trade port.

In late March, 1861 the Lincoln administration ordered four navy ships (the Powhatan, the Illinois, the Pocahontas, and the Harriet Lane) to resupply and reinforce Fort Sumter and to employ force to eliminate all opposition to that mission (i.e., fight its way through if necessary). Lincoln had left the South with an “either/or” decision: Either the South allowed the provisioning and reinforcement of Sumter, or it would have to stop it. Indeed, the act of resupply and military reinforcement of Sumter was an act of war against the Confederacy in general and South Carolina in particular. (Note: The evening of April 11, 1861 the Harriet Lane fired on the Nashville, a civilian steamship that was just outside Charleston Harbor. The Nashville was allowed to subsequently proceed when it ran up a U.S. ensign.)

There were many Southern sympathizers in the North, as well as spies, and the creation of this naval expedition and its mission was reported to Jefferson Davis on April 10, 1861. The Davis administration notified General Beauregard on April 11, 1861 that he had the authority to stop this resupply and reinforcement with force, if he deemed it necessary.

The South chose to stop it; indeed, it really had no other option. And in so doing, the South played right into Lincoln’s hands, because Lincoln could – and did – wax indignant that the South fired the first shot.

After the war Davis was taken into custody. He was told that Beauregard’s bombardment of Sumter was what started the war. Davis pooh-poohed the idea, and rightfully so. He said that it is not who fires the first shot that starts the fight or the war, but rather he who renders force necessary is the true aggressor. Davis said that if someone puts a gun to another person’s chest, and that other person knocks the gun aside, is that other person the true aggressor or is the man who wielded the gun?

The CW is a fascinating subject, and I enjoy the discussions about it.


36 posted on 02/19/2017 5:30:03 PM PST by ought-six (Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: BroJoeK

In his state of the Union report of December 5, 1859, President Buchanan’s Secretary of the United States Treasury issued his report stating that for fiscal year 1859, the total revenue of the US Treasury was $88,090,787. This was misleading, because $28,185,000 was ‘income’ from government borrowing. The actual total revenue from tariffs, and sale of public lands was $53,486,000. Tariff revenue contributed 92% of the total revenue of the country.
But the Congress spent $69,071,000, which was 29% more than it took in.

The value of total US exports for the year was $278,392,000. The value of the exports grown or produced in the South was 74% of the total.

In order to understand the contribution of Southern agriculture to the trade, and thus tariff and taxation structure of the entire country, the following chart shows the percentage of the total value of exports contributed by the South for the year of 1859:

U. S. Department of Commerce
International Transactions and Foreign Commerce
Agricultural Production of the South
Yearly Detail 1859
Value of : Cotton $161,434,000
Tobacco 21,074,000
Rice 2,207,000
Naval stores 3,694,000
Sugar 196,000
Molasses 75,699
Hemp 9,227
Other 8,108,000
___________
Total $196,797,926

Value of Southern manufactured 4,989,000
Cotton exports
Value of cotton component of Northern 3,669,000
Manufactured cotton exports (60%) ___________
$205,455,926
Percentage of Southern Production to
the total US exports for 1859 of
$278,392,000. 74%

Your observation that in 1862 and subsequent years federal revenues increased is because Lincoln initiated an income tax (the first time in U.S. history) and borrowed up a storm. The taxes and the loans were responsible for any increases.

Interesting subject.


37 posted on 02/19/2017 5:42:27 PM PST by ought-six (Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: ought-six

Ought-six: “Interesting subject. “

Yes, and one we’ve reviewed at length before.
I think your figure of 74% is exaggerated, 55% is closer to truth, and the reasons can be spelled out, which I’ll do, hopefully later on today, when there’s more time for it.


38 posted on 02/20/2017 3:35:36 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: ought-six
As such, it could easily have interdicted Southern commerce by closing down a Southern trade port.

In the four months the federal troops were in the fort did it ever once interfere with ships going into and out of Charleston?

The South chose to stop it; indeed, it really had no other option. And in so doing, the South played right into Lincoln’s hands, because Lincoln could – and did – wax indignant that the South fired the first shot.

To say that the nasty ol' Lincoln tricked the South into firing first does not say much about the Confederate leadership, does it?

He was told that Beauregard’s bombardment of Sumter was what started the war. Davis pooh-poohed the idea, and rightfully so.

After four years of war Davis was confused on what started it? Really?

39 posted on 02/20/2017 3:37:08 AM PST by DoodleDawg
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: DoodleDawg

“In the four months the federal troops were in the fort did it ever once interfere with ships going into and out of Charleston?”

The point is it could have. That’s what the original comment stated.


40 posted on 02/20/2017 4:37:20 PM PST by ought-six (Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-63 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson