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Posted on 07/21/2016 3:11:40 PM PDT by oblomov
Moderators, I hope you'll permit the vanity.
I wanted to solicit opinion from FReepers on the remaining NeverTrumpers.
What amuses me is the degree to which the NeverTrumper disdain for Trump seems to be personal. It goes well beyond the superficial pettiness of a faculty lounge dispute, and seems bitter and vindictive.
With some evidence (not much of which I can post here), I'll posit three motives:
- Personal slight against one or more NeverTrumpers, perhaps an ancient slight
- Trump has not paid sufficient fealty to the Conservo-sphere of writers and political consultants
He has not hired Mike Murphy or Matthew Scully. He doesn't give a fig for what Michael Gerson thinks. Or Jonah Goldberg.
- It's a class thing.
Consider the tension, evident sometimes in neocon/paleocon debates, between the "high-bred" Catholic and Jewish NR and Weekly Standard writers,
and the "low-bred" Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Jewish writers at American Conservative, Taki's Mag, and Chronicles.
The sociology of conservatism is not often openly discussed, and may be a factor at work here.
I still have a few issues with him, but he’s the best hands down. And he’s way better than any member of the GOP.
He’s a great choice and I think he will do what he says.
F’em we’ll get there without them. This is a bloodless revolution.
These are basically urban conservatives who are either socially liberal and want to maintain ties with their liberal neighbours and colleagues, or they are so ideologically conservative that they have rejected Trump as being too liberal himself.
So they are two different groups of people who are actually at opposite ends of the spectrum. What they share is a failure to realize that in this general election, a broad center-right coalition must be assembled to defeat the otherwise automatically successful leftist incumbency.
It’s that simple. They are holding out for two different reasons, for a centrist like Mitt Romney, or an ultra-conservative who may not even exist in politics now that Ted Cruz, once their poster boy, has flamed out.
Their rhetoric may sound similar when they are just talking about Donald Trump, but if you got them around a table they would quickly find themselves more divided than they might expect. It’s a case of the perfect being the enemy of the good, perhaps, but also a profound failure to realize where we are in the cycle of history. We’ve blown two chances to neutralize the leftist tide and we may not get a fourth one so this had better be the time and therefore Donald Trump has to be the man.
Also there would be some highly placed elitist career Republicans who just feel that they are not going to get ahead with Trump. That sort of person always gravitates to wherever the work appears.
Can you define what a “Never Trumper” is? From what I have seen it is anyone that doesn’t display the same level of idolatry as many of the rabid Trump supporters here. Trump wasn’t high on my list when the primaries began, but I do think Trump brings something to the table that will allow me to vote for him without holding my nose. With that said, every time I point out a concern or present a question I am called an “Anti-Trumper.” Some times several times in the same thread. I support Trump, but I refuse to check my brain at the door, and I think there are things about Trump we should be concerned about.
I think a lot of the cocktail conservatives like George Will may be actual democrat agents, who steer us like cattle into our pens. In the case of George will, I believe his wife is some high ranking democrat and he just left the republican party. I would say that he was never a republican in the first place.
In the case of Cruz, he is supposedly a master protector of the constitution and perfect conservative. Yet his own wife, the most trusted confidant of all, is on the planning committee to dismantle American sovereignty, even co authoring a paper on implementing the American union! Cruz is a fricking plant.
Gingritch stated publicly on Fox news I believe that the disdain is due to Trump not being a member of the political elite’s secret societies and going through the proper channels. Most of the journalist’s and professional never Trumpers are merely using the opportunity to outdo one another in displaying fealty to the establishment in the hopes of furthering their careers and future. Others - average people that might post here are simply useful idiots.
>>Can you define what a “Never Trumper” is?
Fair question.
I define it as someone who rejects Trump for being insufficiently conservative, while having written in previous years glowingly about the great leadership that McCain or Romney would offer as President.
A NeverTrumper is someone who does the dirty work of the Clinton campaign by demoralizing conservatives, or encouraging them to vote for Clinton or Johnson, neither of whom is more conservative than Trump.
A NeverTrumper is someone who sees Ted Cruz’ speech (which started off good, then rambled) as “heroic” rather than self-aggrandizing.
This article is even titled, “Lion Ted”:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/438154/cruzs-stand-conservatism-lion-ted
Trump was not my first or even my fifth choice, but I’ll vote for him.
I believe your may be correct on George Will. He used the “conservatives” to make money and maintain status. Not much different from David Brock who found he could make more money being a Clinton liberal.
A never trumper is someone who still will not vote for, or support Trump even though he is the nominee and the only chance to stop hillary. They are intellectually dishonest because many of them supported mclame and Romney with no problem. They can do what I did with Romney, hold your nose and vote.
Philosophy comes in two main flavors, empiricism and rationalism. Pretty much every philosophy is some degree of the two, but the snobby academia types are rationalists to a man. Rationalists tend to look down their noses at empiricists, viewing them as compromised and falling short of high ideals. Empiricists for their part view rationalists as a bunch of navel-gazers who could not find their way out of a brown paper bag in the real world.
Trump, like most of the voting public, is an empiricist.
The Never-Trumpers are rationalists.
It really is that simple. A philosophical war which has been raging since Descarte’s time.
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Why do you care?
The answer to your question is Trump’s personal attacks during the primary.
Trump doesn’t care.
NRO’s busy little Winstons have been churning-out twaddle like that article as fast as they can since last night.
I’m interested in ideas.
Often people give “reasons” for taking a strong position, while obscuring the true reasons.
That seems to be the case here.
NR and Weekly Standard don’t like Trump, they say, because he is not a conservative. This can’t be the reason for their conniptions. They supported Bush I and II, Dole, McCain, and Romney without a fuss.
Love your attitude. Screw the small stuff.
Or should I say Plato (rationalist) and Aristotle (empiricist).
They don’t seem to be able to realize that we are in an emergency situation and if helleri wins their precious principles will be lost forever
Social Conservatives don’t think anyone who engages in personal attacks are Conservative.
There are other types of Conservatives though, Fiscal Conservative, Nationalist Conservative, etc....
They are being snobbish in thinking their definition of Conservative is the only one that counts.
But personal attacks basically eliminates you from being a Social Conservative.
Yes, it’s sad. I subscribed to NR for many years. To borrow from a conservative President: I didn’t leave NR, they left me.
They’ve kicked out some fine writers over the years, seldom for good reasons.
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