Posted on 05/07/2016 7:34:23 PM PDT by PinkChampagneonIce
Dear Freeper Preppers:
I have tried to find answers to these questions, and just haven't had much luck. Freepers are always incredibly knowledgeable, so I thought I would throw this out for general comment.
I live somewhat off the grid, in that I live with a bare minimum of electrical appliances. I have a small, motel-sized refrigerator. Its temperature varies. It is so small, that the thermometer will indicate a 5 degree reduction in temperature if I just open the door. During the winter, it is fairly easy to keep it below 40. During the summer, that becomes a challenge. There are many days when the temperature is high that it remains at 45 or so.
The conventional wisdom is that if the temperature rises about 40 the bacteria, germs, microbes, whatever, start growing in food and make it unsafe to eat. As anyone who has lived as I do knows, that is simply not true. For example, sometimes I will buy a pre-cooked rotisserie chicken at the market. It is hot when I buy it, and warm when I put it in the refrigerator. Even if the refrigerator thermometer is showing 45 degrees, the chicken doesn’t automatically “spoil.” If it is in a sealed container/packaging, it is good for at least three days, even though it is chicken, which is considered notoriously likely to spoil. After the three days, I can still use it if I put in in a soup or stew which is boiled for more than 10-15 minutes. I can also refrigerate leftovers for at least 2-3 days without any harmful effects. So just because something is stored below 40 degrees does not necessarily mean that it has spoiled or is dangerous.
Before refrigeration, people used ice boxes. They were insulated, and cooled with blocks of ice. Having done this when I was young on camping trips, I sincerely doubt they maintained a temperature below 40 degrees. Although some people suffered from “summer sickness” from spoiled food, people weren’t dropping like flies. Obviously, some foods are more likely to spoil in a way that causes sickness than others, although this is completely obscured by the modern warnings that anything cooled about 40 degrees is unsafe. I know that in Great Britain, people do not refrigerate items which we are told MUST be refrigerated – for example, jams, mayonnaise, etc. My understanding is that in medieval times spices were prized because they made “tainted” meat palatable.
And so, to my question. For those who have lived off the grid, or in less developed countries, do you have any other guidelines than those which say everything must be cooled below 40 degrees? In your experience, which foods spoil the fastest, and in the most dangerous fashion? Which spoil but are just nasty, not life threatening? In an emergency situation, which foods should be absolutely avoided after a certain time at a certain temperature, and which can be worked with by boiling for 10-15 minutes or charring over an open fire. When is “tainted” meat OK to eat, and when will it kill you?
I’m posting this fairly late in the evening. I’m going to bed, so I won’t be replying to this thread until tomorrow or Monday. I really appreciate your input on this topic.
my guess is that you need more air circulation inside the refer:
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=refrigerator+fan+battery+operated
Like pemmican?
Many traditional methods are now considered gourmet, but given the lack of practical skills these days, it’s no wonder. The artisan food movement is all about the rediscovery of traditional methods and its a good thing. I prefer adventurous foods, though I still shy away from tripe—from preference rather than sanitation fears.
Farming was never as consistent as buying groceries, so people had to do something with the overabundance. I used to be amazed that people don’t know how to cook, can, pickle, smoke, and dry; but that’s just because my grandparents were poor Okies who raised a dozen kids through the Depression. Raising my own (kids, produce and livestock) gave me an appreciation for how hard it must have been. We were able to can and freeze most of ours, so it was a lot easier.
I read about a discovery of a pemmican cache that was over 100 years old and still edible.
Not quite, the meat in pemmican is dehydrated first. The meat in confit isn’t.
Look at the fridge and make sure of two things. 1) keep a very good air flow to the box. 2) make sure the heat exchange coils are clean of dust / dirt.
Those are your no cost options.
Other things I have seen people do. 4” plastic tube from the basement with a small fan to move the basement cool air up to the fridge location. Usually looks ugly, does not cost much.
Consider replacing with a PROPANE (yes, propane) Refrigerator (assumes you have a propane tank /supply). They tend to run $2,000+ but are great long term investments.
Consider replacing with a high efficiency fridge designed for lower voltages. http://www.sunfrost.com/all_efficient_refrigerator_models.html
“I’m fairly certain a Beretta M9 will still kill you even if boiled.”
Good one, but I wouldn’t want to try it.
Look into natural fermentation, it can preserve veggies for year, without canning. It also increases nutrition unlike canning. it is what we did before refridgeration.
Actually a fertile egg that is not washed keeps for a couple weeks in cool weather. Washing it drowns it, and it will rot quickly. It is how a chicken who only lays a single egg a day can raise a whole clutch of baby chicks.
The key to gut health is acidophilus type food fermentation, and reduction in sugar intake.
Kimchee or Kraut is best made at 65 degrees in a crock with a fermentation airlock. Earth temp is around that. Using sea salts and mineral salts like himmilain salts provide trace minerals that activate the enzymes created with fermentation. It will keep for over 9 months without a fridge.
Half chopped cabbage, half mixed veggies is great. Mix 2 parts with one part sour cream and its a great chip dip.
Eat from 2 weeks to 6 weeks for maximum pro biotic effect.
It is a great way to keep non root crop veggies as well as root crops.
Easy to do and learn, get yourself a “Perfect Pickler” kit for 20 bucks comes with a how to DVD.
Even after you boil those things don’t you have to run them through a grinder before you can eat ‘em?
All due respect, that’s the simpleton approach being marketed by those now promoting probiotics as the new health panacea. What you wrote works for very few people, mostly due to ignorance.
The odds are that anyone ever having taken antibiotics have a high risk factor for dybiosis and consequent overgrowth contributing to many symptoms for which most people self-medicate and/or rationalize as “just age”.
I did at one time, too... but I woke up.
WOW everyone! Thank you for the many interesting posts. It’s going to take me a while to work through them.
As far as replacing the little fridge, I’m saving up money for a regular fridge, but it’s taking me a long time, so I’ve been dealing with the little one. However, I really like the idea of the RV fridge that runs on propane as a backup in an emergency situation....I’m going to check those out.
I love reading food storage ideas. Our ancestors were so creative. It’s amazing to consider that the huge Renaissance banquets held in royal courts and the houses of the nobility were all created without refrigeration or electricity. We’ve only had electricity 100 years, and people act as if we couldn’t live without it! I enjoy doing without - it’s a fun game.
Simpleton? Respect?
It works mostly because of ignorance?
I don’t think these words mean what you think.
Pressure canning also works.
I've been pressure canning meat very successfully for some time now.
When I have a turkey, especially, when we're done with dinner, I clean off the meat, cook the carcass, and pressure can the broth with some meat for soup to be made at a later date.
I just grab a can off the shelf, add the fresh veggies and voila, a pot of fresh turkey soup, something you can't get in the stores.
**** “We learned to make them in the Boy Scouts out of orange crates and burlap bags” ****
Finding Burlap these days is tough!
Have you tried the oven jerky method where you hang the meat under the oven rack using toothpicks? Line to bottom of the oven with foil to catch drippings, the push toothpicks thru the meat and suspend below the oven rack. Toothpick hangs between two oven rack bars. Round toothpicks work best. Then dehydrate at about 180 degrees (I stick a small item in the door to keep it vented. Works great!
Hey thanks...The folks who told me about the sodium silicate left out that important information.
“Hey thanks...The folks who told me about the sodium silicate left out that important information.”
The way my dad explained it (he was born in 1908 before widespread use of refrigeration), it’s akin to putting a bandage on a wound without cleaning it first. It just seals in surface germs and incubates them. An ethel alcohol wash would probably work too, but they drank that if they had any.
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