Inside the Waco Twin Peaks Biker Shootout with Biker Richard Luther

TheLipTV2 ^ | August 31, 2015 | TheLipTV2

[ExyZ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=any4cI6nAf8&index=1&list=PLPnLjoW07bV0zxAVQcjXZoHLibjuRoZas

The Waco shootout at a Twin Peaks restaurant flooded with bikers from clubs such as the Cossacks, the Bandidos, and many more is explained with witness, Richard Luther. Luther’s experience as a Cossack, the shootout, thoughts on a possible conspiracy, and the 33 days he would go on to spend in jail after the shootout is explored. Learn the ugly truth about the police handling of the situation, the cruel and unusual punishment that bikers suffered in jail, and the pieces of the puzzle that don’t add up, in this Antidote interview hosted by Michael Parker.

[Darksheare]

In b4tg

[ImJustAnotherOkie]

More blame the cops crap? Don’t get in shootouts is my advice.

[Robert Teesdale]

Unfortunate there are no captions, rendering the video inscrutable to me. Would you be kind enough to summarize the key conclusions?

[Robert Teesdale]

LOL

[ExyZ]

Eye witness tells of “four to five minutes” of terror as cops held bikers at gun point until they died

http://radiolegendary.com/2015/09/eye-witness-tells-of-four-to-five-minutes-of-terror-as-cops-held-bikers-at-gun-point-until-they-died/

[Robert Teesdale]

Thank you for the link. I have reviewed it and there are some things that stand out in the narrative:

"...they “immediately” ran over a prospect in the Cossacks Motorcycle Club,"

As I have heard reported, this was a tire going over a foot and not a motorcycle running down a man in the parking lot. In other words, intended and taken as an deliberate offense rather than as a serious crash creating consternation and melee. Does that matter? It can. One can envision a scenario where "here come the Bandidos" is voiced; the Cossacks prospect stands a little too close, just to be a dick; the Bandido on his bike refuses to ride around him; an ego and a foot and then mutual pride is bruised; et cetera. The subsequent traded obscenities also fit that scenario and don't necessarily rise to the level of provoking armed retaliation.

I speculate only. I think the speculation is reasonable. I don't advocate this speculation as fact.

He and other members of his club had been invited to attend the Confederation of Clubs and Independents meeting by a member of the Waco Police Department, Luther said in a YouTube interview with Michael Parker of “Antidote” news service. The invitation from the Waco Police was relayed through a prospect of the club who is a former Bandido.

Right there I am going to call several levels of bovine excreta. First, I do not believe for a moment that any member of any club would consider an invitation to a COC meeting, extended by law enforcement, to be valid in any way. Second, I do not believe any law enforcement agency would expect a message relayed through a prospect to be received as valid. Third, I do not believe any club would accept such invitation. On my last point, the article said that the Cossacks requested agreement from national leadership but it does not specifically state such agreement was obtained.

The rest of the article covers men bleeding out and dying while aid was prevented at gunpoint.

That also seems reasonable to me, as such conduct is in keeping with what I have seen to be standard practice from American law enforcement.

I do not say that such practice is reasonable; merely that it is reasonable to believe it was engaged in on May 17th in Waco.

As an aside, I have no knowledge of any club business, or comment on the same.

My opinion's worthless, but respectfully offered nonetheless.

[rawcatslyentist]

Amazing how they will mass arrest and hold US Citizens without trial, evidence, or obtainable bail after being attacked by Para Military Police. Yet Slimes can chop heads and attempt mass murder and their club members are all considered innocent even though they fly colors 5x a day and attend Death to Mankind services every Friday!

[JJ_Folderol]

We share perceptions on this, Mr. Teesdale.

I also suspect that this recitation by Luther is somewhat self-serving and divergent from the factual. It feels as though it’s the agreed upon story from the Cossack side.

I would add that interviewee also mentioned ‘automatic rifle fire’ which is something we’ve heard from another witness somewhere in the dim past. I still doubt that even police in panic mode would be that idiotic.

I’m also curious as to whether this interview is in violation of the gag order.

[Smokin' Joe]

That also seems reasonable to me, as such conduct is in keeping with what I have seen to be standard practice from American law enforcement.

Interesting.

If the police shot a suspect, I can see that, not that I think it is the right thing to do.

However, under that M.O., If I am shot by a third party, the police preventing aid (at gunpoint) is beyond unreasonable, and fodder for a wrongful death suit.

The inference is that the police did the shooting.

[Robert Teesdale]

I also suspect that this recitation by Luther is somewhat self-serving and divergent from the factual. It feels as though it’s the agreed upon story from the Cossack side.

Human nature is such that any public statement in this situation is likely to be self-serving, and factual only as necessary. Not an aspersion on Mr. Luther, just a general observation.

I would add that interviewee also mentioned ‘automatic rifle fire’ which is something we’ve heard from another witness somewhere in the dim past. I still doubt that even police in panic mode would be that idiotic.

I doubt full automatic fire also, but I would not find burst mode to be surprising.

I’m also curious as to whether this interview is in violation of the gag order.

I believe the gag order applies to Broden and his client.

[clamper1797]

BTTT

[JJ_Folderol]

Ping.

[don-o]

Thanks for the ping. Added keyword waco.

[don-o]

The rest of the article covers men bleeding out and dying while aid was prevented at gunpoint.

Have not read the review but did just listen to the whole interview. The one thing that stood out to me was Luther giving his recollection of hearing pistol fire then "within seconds" rifle fire. Said it sounded like Viet Nam. Frustrating thing was the interviewer did not press him for any detail, like "How many seconds? Five? Fifteen? Thirty?"

This is important because Brent Stroman said that his men Waco PD) were in their cars when the first shots were fired. This makes for a reasonable suspicion that LE other than Waco PD fired the first rifle shots. This is important, because the DOJ has been silent on this thing while there is a reasonable suspicion that BATF were the initial shooters from the LE side, and DOJ is pretending like it has nothing to do with them.

Luther said he hit the ground when rifle fire commenced and could not determine source of the fire. He crawled inside.

Luther opines that bikers killed 3 and LE killed the rest and put injuries on several

[roamer_1]

Good post. Another thing confirmed in this report, and the single most curious factor in the case of what went on that day is that this man saw police positions going in... It has never made any sense to me that a premeditated and intentional rumble would go forward within a virtual fishbowl with LEOs around the perimeter.

Bikers, as a rule, are not fools... many of them having served in war, and many more having experienced less than favorable treatment with law enforcement... This guy was sharp enough to be uncomfortable with what he saw as a flanking movement by the Bandidos - It seems incredibly unlikely to me that he and others would not be just as keenly aware of those LEO positions, and their very qualified dominance over the battlefield in that parking lot.

IF there was intention on the biker’s part, from either side, it seems pretty short-sighted to continue without sending scouts to position in such a way as to counter that effective dominance, because otherwise, any idiot would be able to predict the ensuing turkey-shoot...

It is far more likely that any such premeditated action would be called off to await a day with better odds. I know that if I had rolled up there, and saw such a presence, my radar would be screaming at me, and I would have rolled right on by (as proven on several occasions in my life). It makes no sense at all.

[don-o]

Glad to hear from you. I'll go back and listen again, but I heard him remarking that LE was NOT all that nearby as he arrived. And that he could not visually locate the source of the incoming. Which lends credence that the Fed were deployed (on Don Carlos roof?) ready and itching to rock and roll. Autopsy reports listed many downward trajectories.

Was there an agent provocateur involved? I dunno and can't and won't construct a theory based on so many still unknowns.

My hope that Federal LE is not completely corrupted grows dimmer every day.

[roamer_1]

Glad to hear from you.

Hiya don-o... hope all is well with y'all. : )

I'll go back and listen again, but I heard him remarking that LE was NOT all that nearby as he arrived.

Right, but he mentions, quite emphatically, placements of both marked and unmarked LEOs... He knew they were there. No doubt, so did others...

And that he could not visually locate the source of the incoming.

Right, though I took that to mean he could not verify because he was on the ground, and could no longer see through the field of combatants- his position would put the surrounding LEO positions on the other side of the fight from him... And while their positions on the perimeter appear elevated, I don't think they are elevated enough to compensate for the view from the ground, through the melee.

Which lends credence that the Fed were deployed (on Don Carlos roof?) ready and itching to rock and roll. Autopsy reports listed many downward trajectories.

While that wouldn't surprise me, his statement hardly qualifies much from his position on the ground, and probably focused in the near vicinity... A 'hail of rifle fire' certainly computes... his hearing was not obstructed... Though his identification of suppressed rifle fire would indicate fairly near positioning - I don't know that you'd hear suppressed fire from the rooftop across the way... Which also certainly does not deny it's existence...

Was there an agent provocateur involved? I dunno and can't and won't construct a theory based on so many still unknowns.

Yep. Agreed.

My hope that Federal LE is not completely corrupted grows dimmer every day.

I have been there for a very long while.

[Clay Moore]

“While that wouldn't surprise me, his statement hardly qualifies much from his position on the ground, and probably focused in the near vicinity... A ‘hail of rifle fire’ certainly computes... his hearing was not obstructed... Though his identification of suppressed rifle fire would indicate fairly near positioning - I don't know that you'd hear suppressed fire from the rooftop across the way... Which also certainly does not deny it's existence... “

I have never shot a suppressed rifle but I have shot and heard many unsuppressed rifles shooting game animals.

Typically it makes a sound like KaWHUMP. The Ka being the shot and the WHUMP the impact.

I would think it would be difficult to ascertain direction if you were hearing the impacts hitting bodies with little or no sound from the rifles.

[roamer_1]

I have never shot a suppressed rifle but I have shot and heard many unsuppressed rifles shooting game animals. Typically it makes a sound like KaWHUMP. The Ka being the shot and the WHUMP the impact.

This would be different - First you need to realize that suppressed rounds are de-tuned... necessarily sub-sonic, or the suppressor really doesn't do you any good, as the movement of the round through the air breaks the sound barrier... So these would be low-velocity rounds, pretty different from a std. 30 cal deer rifle, I think. I don't think the sound of the suppressed fire would carry much more than 50 yards, far less with all the commotion... You'd hear a whap from the round hitting, but again, not the SMACK you'd hear from a deer gun.

I would think it would be difficult to ascertain direction if you were hearing the impacts hitting bodies with little or no sound from the rifles.

It's pretty difficult to ascertain anyway, in what I would compare to open canyon land (buildings would somewhat create the same effect)... Sound goes strange places... And again, add the commotion and high stress, and one can understand the confusion...