Posted on 11/17/2014 2:05:57 PM PST by Eddie01
We are all driven by our belief systems.
For instance, we know Christianity can and has propelled simple men to great heights of honor and integrity in the never ending struggle against evil. I offer America as an example.
ISIS fighters have a belief system too, to which they devote their lives - Islam
The one answer Obama and all other apologist will never be able to answer truthfully is this.
What passage in the Koran contradicts the actions of ISIS?
Tell me that MF'rs!!
That is not a smart question to ask.
One Muslim friend gives me this ( of course he ignores all the other violent Quranic texts ):
“Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And Allah hears and knows all things.” [Sûrah al-Baqarah: 256]
If I remember his explanation to me, it is this:
One of the fundamental truths established by the sacred texts is that no one can be compelled to accept Islam. It is the duty of Muslims to establish the proof of Islam to the people so that truth can be made clear from falsehood. After that, whoever wishes to accept Islam may do so and whoever wishes to continue upon unbelief may do so. No one should be threatened or harmed in any way if he does not wish to accept Islam.
the stinking koran contradicts itself more that Barack Hussein Obama....
ISLAM = ISIS
ISIS = ISLAM
That is a truth in its entirety. Anyone who believes otherwise is a fool.
Well that ain’t working out real good. Is it?
CAIR, AME, beheadings in America and Briton. Forced conversions, war on Christianity.
I call BS.
I asked it.
Got anything better than a defective response?
Your question is bad in 2 ways, it sends people to looking for those passages, and those passages exist.
You are correct in what you are thinking, but lawyers know not to make the mistake of your post.
I think a better way to state the problem is: What do jihadis do that isn’t demanded of them by their prophet?
Their prophet defines what their religion _is_. People who claim to follow a _religion_ but don’t do anything that it’s founder/prophets say and do, are _not_ members of the religion.
ISIS is doing exactly what their prophets said and did.
Lawyers?
Fine. Why is there not widespread condemnation of ISIS by Islam? Why is there not a strong desire for Islam to defeat these usurpers of their own sacred religion?
Don’t see it. Complicity is compliance.
Thank you.
See 9.
See post 9 for the proper approach to what you were attempting.
Have you lost your head?
What I am attempting is to demonstrate what outright lies Barack Obama’s comments regarding ISIS and Islam in the simplest terms possible.
Terms no one can argue left or right.
Actually there are passages that contradict what ISIS does. They also contradict what Mohammed did, and later passages. When Mo was just a nutjob in Mecca with few followers he preached that conversion had to be voluntary. Later when he had a band of armed followers he preached terror and jihad against any who didn’t convert. Asked how Allah could say one thing before and another later he just said Allah can do anything including change his mind. Islamic scholars know that those earlier passages have been nullified by later ones, but cite them to westerners to fool us.
You can find the letter of 120 Muslim scholars denouncing Al-Bagdadhi and ISIS online.
That part of the Koran has been abrogated per their doctrine. In other words, it is no longer valid.
Those Westerners who manage to pick up a translation of the Quran are often left bewildered as to its meaning thanks to ignorance of a critically important principle of Quranic interpretation known as “abrogation.” The principle of abrogation — al-naskh wa al-mansukh (the abrogating and the abrogated) — directs that verses revealed later in Muhammad’s career “abrogate” — i.e., cancel and replace — earlier ones whose instructions they may contradict. Thus, passages revealed later in Muhammad’s career, in Medina, overrule passages revealed earlier, in Mecca. The Quran itself lays out the principle of abrogation:
“2:106. Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We {Allah} abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is able to do all things?”
http://www.jihadwatch.org/islam-101
RE: That part of the Koran has been abrogated per their doctrine. In other words, it is no longer valid.
THAT my friend, is the problem with Islam. It does not have any ONE authority by which we can determine whose interpretation is authoritative such that they have CONFLICTING understanding of the Quran.
Muslim scholar Mahmoud M. Ayoub writes:
… Mujahid said, “This was before the Apostle of Allah was commanded to fight against the People of the Book. Allah’s saying, ‘There is no compulsion in religion’ WAS ABROGATED and he was commanded to fight against the People of the Book in Surat Bara‘ah” (Q. 9:29).
(Wahidi, pp. 77-78) … According to other traditions, the verse was revealed in reference to the People of the Book, who should not be compelled to enter Islam so long as they pay jizyah (poll tax). The verse is, therefore, not abrogated. Tabari relates on the authority of Qatadah, “Arab society WAS COMPELLED TO ENTER ISLAM because they were an unlettered community [ummah ummiyah], having no book which they knew. Thus nothing other than Islam was accepted from them. The people of the Book are not to be compelled to enter Islam if they submit to paying the jizyah or kharaj [land tax].”
The same view is related on the authority of al-Dahhak, Mujahid, and Ibn ‘Abbas (Tabari, V. pp. 413-414). Tabari AGREES WITH THIS VIEW and asserts that the verse applies to the people of the two Books (Jews and Christians) and the Zoroastrians (Majus)…
Another scholar, Qurtubi relates yet another view which asserts, “It was in reference to captives who, if they are of the People of the Book, are not to be compelled if they are adults; but if they are Zoroastrians or idolators, be they old or young, THEY SHALL BE FORCED TO ACCEPT ISLAM. This is because their master could not benefit from them if they were idolators.”
Qurtubi adds, “Do you not see that animals slaughtered by them would be unlawful to eat and their women could be married [to Muslims]? They practise the eating of carrion and other such unclean things. Thus their master would find them unclean and therefore it would be difficult to benefit from them as his slaves. HENCE, IT BECOMES LAWFUL FOR HIM TO COMPEL THEM” (Qurtubi, II, p. 280; see also Shawkani, I, p. 275). (Ayoub, The Qur’an and it Interpreters [State University of New York Press (SUNY), Albany, 1984], Volume I, pp. 253-254; capital emphasis ours)
The Islamic doctrine of abrogation (Surah’s 2:106; 13:39), where an earlier verse is said to be cancelled, nullified, set aside or replaced by later verses, is problematic for Islam for various reasons, with every instance of abrogation being a problem for the doctrine of an unchanging deity, and should trouble thinking Muslims, because if the Qur’an really is the actual Word of Allah, then it is eternal and is thus incapable of change, abrogation suggesting that the Qur’an was created, thus being incapable of being the uncreated Word of Allah, and if the Qur’an really is the Word of Allah, it should be perfect, with no verse being superior (”better”) than another, and with the Qur’an claiming to be “a glorious Qur’an (inscribed) in a tablet preserved Surah 85:21-22 this means that the “tablet preserved” contains both the abrogated and the abrogating verses!! and for non-Muslims, Allah’s changing commands regarding the use of violence against them are certainly the most relevant.
Compare and contrast Qur’anic abrogation with the Words spoken by the living, loving Word of God, the Lord Jesus Christ,
“Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.”
These conflicting understanding of the Quran is one the of the reasons why Muslims are at war with each other (see SHIA vs SUNNI as one example ).
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