Posted on 10/12/2014 7:29:40 PM PDT by CovenBuster
My dog Jazz recently had 3 seizures. They were about 1 to 2 weeks apart, and each time they occurred at the same time each morning (4:50 a.m.). They were brief in duration, lasting only about a minute or two (although it seemed like an eternity). Each time she lost control of her bladder. Afterward, she seemed dazed and bewildered for a few minutes, then she bounced back as if nothing had happened.
She's diabetic, but any connection with the diabetes has been ruled out by the vet.
I know there are dogs who live with seizures, and this may end up being the case with my dog. However, I want to try to keep them at bay as much as is humanly possible.
The other day I was at the vet inquiring about a particular flea control product. The vet tech named a product but said that it couldn't be given to dogs who were prone to seizures. That got me to thinking that maybe their HeartGard (ivermectin) could be the culprit. (We don't usually have to fight fleas, but there have been a jillion #$@& feral cats hanging around my property recently. One by one, they're being trapped and taken away.) After the vet tech mentioned the seizure side effect of the flea treatment, I got to thinking that it might be possible that the heartworm meds could be suspect. Sure enough, I'm seeing warnings to that effect online.
My dogs are 10-year-old poodles. They're half sisters, so they do share some genes. However, the other one doesn't seem to have a problem with the ivermectin products. Still, I can't help wondering if it's just a matter of time after reading some of the online accounts. Now I'm scared to give Jazz her heartworm meds this month, and because we've had the worst summer for mosquitoes in recent memory, I'm scared not to.
I can't say that I totally trust the vet to be square with me seeing as how they never mentioned anything about the possibility of HeartGard as the culprit.
I was hoping to tap into the experiences and thoughts of some of my FRiends on the doggie ping list. Has anyone gone through this or known anyone who has? Can you add any information, recommendations, etc? Thanks to the Obama economy, I'm on a very, very tight budget, so I can't be testing her for every possibility. I'm very scared and don't know what to do as it will be time for her HeartGard in a week or so.
WOW did that look like my buddy! I miss him so much. Thanks.
Dog seizure update. This update pertains to my dog and her seizures. I’m not trying to say I have an answer for anyone else’s dog’s seizures, but I’m sharing our story in case it may help someone.
I’m fairly sure I’ve pinpointed the culprit — wasp spray! Here on the Texas Gulf Coast we have these horrible tree roaches. They’re outside roaches, but every so often the creepy things make their way inside. They’re HUGE and they FLY, so there’s nothing more disconcerting than lying in your bed and looking up to see one on your white ceiling. I wanted to be able to kill them from a distance, so I got some wasp spray. In spite of turning on every fan, ionizer and air re-circulator I have, I am unable to keep residual wasp spray from wafting through the room. I started keeping a diary of what she might have been exposed to whenever she would have a seizure. The pattern jumped out at me — wasp spray + 24 to 36 hours = a seizure. I put away the wasp spray immediately, and she hasn’t had a seizure since. That was July 8!
I hope this info can help someone. At the very least, start keeping a diary to see if there’s a pattern. Perhaps that will be just the clue you need.
Dogs ROCK!!
P.S. I’m not going to use any kind of bug spray inside since I don’t know which ingredient triggered her seizures. If anyone has a safe alternative to use as a bug killer, please feel free to share it here. Thanks!
I hope it was okay for me to C&P Joe 6-pack’s doggie ping list. I really wanted to alert all dog lovers to our recent problem with seizures and what I was finally able to figure out was the cause. I wish I’d known it before. I wouldn’t have put my dog in peril if I had. But here’s hoping my experience will help someone else.
Please see post #82 for the update to the year-long seizure problem. It’s been a couple of weeks since that post and we’re still seizure-free! PTL!
BTW, I started suspecting that bug spray could be the problem. I even took it in with me on a vet visit. The vet wasn’t interested in the ingredient list, nor was she of the opinion that it was a contributor. She was of the opinion that I should have my dog put through some te$t$. Hmmmm... I had no money for tests, so that was out. Unfortunately, I took her lack of concern as an OK to continue with the bug spray. Once I started documenting everything, I could see the big picture and determine the cause and effect. If that vet were still at my clinic, I’d go squirt her with the spray! Grrrrr-r-r-r.
P.S. I would imagine this could be relevant info for cat lovers, too. Just a guess, since I know almost nothing about cats.
Thanks for the info—you may have saved some dogs today.
I have always put my dogs outside when we have our house sprayed, and I go out with them. I don’t think the spray is good for humans either.
When they leave, I open all the windows and some of the doors, and turn on all the ceiling fans, too.
PING over to Slings and Arrows, he handles the cat issues.
Thanks for the ping, CovenBuster. I’m pinging onyx because she has a new puppy, and I don’t know if she is on your list. My apologies if you were already pinged, onyx.
Thanks for the report. Wasp spray is some bad stuff, I have a can of it in my Tahoe to spray in the face of a person who might try to attack me. I. am so glad you were able to figure it out.
I am very careful and don’t let my exterminator spray any place other than the attic and around the outside edge of the house. That is for the protection of my dogs and myself.
I see an occasional roach of the size you mention, I am in Texas too. They are scary critters but at least they do not bite or sting.
I am an epileptic and you would be surprised of some of the causes for seizures. Even a calcium pill along with the wrong blood pressure medicine can cause them. It’s amazing. I am glad you found this out.
I wouldn’t trust Heartguard or Sergents or any of those. Seizures are odd things. I am an epileptic and even thought they never have found a cause of them and I have had plenty; you would be surprised what cause them. Even a calcium tablet with the wrong blood pressure medicine can cause seizures. The cause(s) are probably one of the biggest mysteries in life.
Facinating. Possibly your dog is allergic to it.
I have found I am allergic to some chemical. Do not know because I’ve only had 2 episodes in my life out of nowhere. The common denominator - use of chemicals for 2 differerent events.
1 must’ve come from my old dog flea spray. First time ever I had such a horrid crippling physical break-down. Wish I kept the old can, because later I might have had a list of ingredients to compare to my neighbor’s Halloween fog mist that also seemed to trigger me. Years later.
People and dogs have different chemical make-ups, and it can cause bad reactions for some things.
It’s certainly okay, CovenBuster. I completely understand your frustration with your vet (boy, do I! Not because of seizures, though)
One of our guys has seizures. Or did (knocking on wood). Yes, they’ll always funnel you for tests- blood panel, liver shunt, & the biggie, MRI at a specialty clinic. ***I don’t know where you are, but specialty clinic’s MRI machines aren’t what they’re touted as. Texas A&M has THE most sensitive MRI in existence. And it costs the same (actually a couple of hundred less) than the state of the art specialist hospital here. (this wasn’t for our seizure boy, but my little Eskie girl that we are losing. It turned out that she has brain bleeds. They don’t know why. Or ostensibly don’t. The local MRI just showed atrophy in a part of her brain- totally different than A&M’s.)
Anyway. Our boy has been on the regular dose of phenobarbital for years now & his seizures are very well controlled. It’s been at least 5 years.
Another thought. That you’ve nailed it in one regard. Flea meds, especially- but also heartworm preventative, all target the central nervous system of fleas. Having lost 2 dogs to degenerative *neurological* disease, almost lost our youngest Eskie to Ivermectin sensitivity, & Murphy having seizures, we have them on Dimmitrol- which you can mail order from Australia (it’s a daily, but dirt cheap) or Interceptor (which was recently brought back into production).
We’re using Advantage & insect growth regulator for the yard. Dimmitrol used to be called Filarbits. When Heartgard came out, it virtually disappeared from the US market. The monthly HW preventatives are WAY overdosed. I have a link to another protocol that doses less & less frequently, but I have to go dig for it. We have used this, successfully, in South Texas for about 10 years. LOTS of skeeters, zero positives.
And Sal’s post is spot on! Or posts. lol Except for the one about being foggy. Ping me, Sal, if anyone gives you any nonsense. BTDT. I’ll be right over.
Kudos to you, CovenBuster, for starting a really important conversation that, imho, needs more discussion among dog lovers. Bookmarked! I’ll be keeping you & your furry pal in my prayers.
Interceptor is back?!?
Hallelujah!!!
I stopped giving heartworm meds after they ‘reformulated’ it to include flea poison.
*Anything* that makes my dogs’ BLOOD so TOXIC that it kills fleas and ticks that bite them is simply *not happening*, here.
I briefly used IverHeart but in spite of none of my dogs belonging to the breeds sensitive to it, it made them all sick.
More often that not, the tablet was barfed up shortly after they’d swallowed it so I switched to every-month SNAP tests, instead.
Rosemary extract is in *everything*, now.
Butterball ground turkey is loaded with it [it tastes like medicine, now] and they don’t list it...just says “natural flavors” on the package.
I was not aware it was in there and ate that stuff over the course of a week and felt like hell.
It’s known fact that anyone who is even slightly prone to seizures or heart problems should NOT consume it but apparently, no one cares.
I have tried to get people together to dun Butterball into getting rid of it but most people don’t seem to care.
It is. I yelled out loud when my vet told me. Foster & Smith has it. I haven’t checked around to see who has it, locally. My main vet doesn’t carry it, but wrote us a scrip. No joke re Sentinel. We never gave it, but I did read up.
I know. I read EVERYTHING now before I give my dogs anything I haven’t given before. My vet is very kind & totally indulges my dogs, but I don’t really trust any of them any more. They may believe what they’re told by the pharmaceutical reps in good faith, but that isn’t good enough anymore. Not when you’re losing dogs. I won’t go into it here, but will FReepmail you one of these days about what happened with Lina when we almost lost her (or maybe I told you about that when I first met you on here.)
Iverheart is just generic Heartgard. Interceptor is Milbemycin oxime & in the same family of drugs, so I don’t know what’s *so* different, but I do know that Lina did fine on it.
Have you not seen the Safeheart protocols for HW prevention dosing, Sal? My evening ran away with me (lol baking cookies). I’ll dig it up after this last batch, I promise. It’ll be here when you come back.
I have used the Milbemycin on my dogs *forever* and never ever had once single issue, not even with my Sight Hounds, who are total canaries in the coal mine when it comes to medicines.
I literally wept when they stopped making it.
Since that grim day, I’ve relied on testing regularly, instead, after the Ivermectin stuff gave the brats so much trouble.
Don’t get me started on vets.
Most of them graduate, start a practice and never go to any seminars, which exist solely to educate them on all the *new* protocols, such as the “annual vax” which should no longer be annual.
But vax make them a LOT of money.
Most still push the useless [best case scenario] and deadly [worst case scenario] Lyme vax.
Far too many still include the toxic Rimadyl in their drug arsenals.
I could rant for hours but I won’t.
I have vet horror stories galore.
One idiot cost me the Wonder Dobe of my youth.
It’s been 31 years and I still grieve for that dog.
We were really happy with Interceptor. I didn’t. I swore like a fiddler’s b*tch. I was so damn mad, I ranted & raved to everyone who would listen- every supplier, Novartis, Merial, my 4 vets- everybody. lol Even got on the pharmaceutical reps’ forums & raised hell.
That research was how I discovered Sight Hounds (breeds sensitive to Ivermectin). If not for a gal with Mini Aussie Rescue (MARS) in New England somewhere, I’d have lost my mind when all that was going on. She put me on to Dimmitrol & told me how to get it.
We are on the same page with ALL of this. They give toxic garbage like Rimadyl- & even try to trick people into using it by prescribing under Novox or Carprofen- so it’s not just about the money. Deramaxx (which is Vioxx), too. Tramadol costs a lot less & is 10 times more effective without the side effects & liver/ kidney damage. I feel like they’re treating my animals like guinea pigs, not caring if they suffer & die horrible deaths in the process.
It breaks my heart. I can live without a doctor or a lawyer, but I NEED a vet- a good one, that I can trust. The trouble is THEY trust. (I guess)
The link I was referring to is this one
https://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/heartworm/
Google is a good source, too. Seems like I’ve seen another page or 2 that have had the same info.
Y’all are scaring the liver outta me! I have absolutely no medical aptitude. When I see all these pharmaceutical terms being bandied about, my head is swimming. My girls don’t seem to react unfavorably to HeartGuard or their flea treatment (Advantage II). The wasp spray is the only trigger I’ve been able to pinpoint.
If it weren’t for the feral cats (grrrrr-r-r-r), I wouldn’t need to bother with the flea treatment. That’s the only time fleas show up on my dogs. But living on the Texas Gulf Coast, I’m scared not to have a heartworm regimen.
What I find strange, is that several years ago, hearing about dog seizures seemed pretty rare. Now I am hearing about it with much more frequency. Wonder what is causing this? Our Vet did say that it was better to give dogs with seizure problems real meat instead of processed dog food. At least his last 6 months he was enjoying chicken leg quarters. :)
Don’t be scared. But we do have to be proactive. (I haven’t got any, either & was having to read PubMed & Scribd articles 3 or 4 times & still had to ask my vet to verify what I thought it said)
The red flag I got from your post was that you suspected that it could be Heartgard. Now, I AM biased against it- and some of my dogs are still on it. But henceforth, if my gut tells me something, I will heed it, just to be on the safe side. It sounds like you’re pretty tuned in to your pups, so you’re more than halfway there.
Advantage II is what we use with no apparent ill effects. When our Dimmitrol runs out- and our Heartgard, everybody is going back on Interceptor, just for convenience, and at the Safeheart dose. Imho, it’s the safest thing you can use out of what’s available in the US.
You probably do need to give HW prevention being where you are. Whether you can skip the Winter months depends on whether the low temps there fit with the protocol. This is “off label” dosing & your vet will probably give you the business.
We’ve got a gazillion ferals, too. And wildlife, Fleas are gonna happen- especially when it’s warm & wet. If you stay warm & wet OR in drought, it’s not that hard to treat the grounds. It’s when it’s mixed that it’s difficult. That’s why we use a growth regulator. When fleas get bad, you have to attack them on every front- topical on the dogs, vacuum vacuum vacuum in the house, & treat the yard.
Buhahahahahahaha! I love this gif. If I bothered setting up my 2 doggies simultaneously, that is surely what the lab would do!
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