The answer, of course, is almost none.
We don't lack the ability to completely secure our border. All we lack is the political will.
Posted on 09/17/2014 4:36:52 PM PDT by Kansas58
A very disturbing number of Freepers are openly advocating, on Free Republic threads, for the defeat of Senator Pat Roberts and other good Conservative Republicans. Greg Orman, in Kansas, is a pro abortion, anti gun, tax and spend Liberal Democrat who has given tens of thousands of dollars to Obama and Pelosi and the Democrat Party and Harry Reid. I am called an "idiot" for supporting Roberts. However, I think that those on Free Republic who support Harry Reid and Greg Orman should be ZOTTED, kicked off the site. I have had enough of there hate filled, vindictive, misguided trash.
And the Romans didn't have backhoes.
I give Norm the win.
Then I would suggest that you re-read your Roman history.
Generally, Rome built walls around forts and cities with varying lengths of 1 mile to 12 miles. Two walls were approximately 35 miles long. The Hadrian Wall was approximately 70 miles long. All of them together didn’t equal the 2000 miles of border we have to secure.
Likewise, Rome’s enemies didn’t have the capabilities to breach those walls on a daily basis. They couldn’t drive trucks though them or use battery-operated saws to cut through them. Do you know why Roman walls, generally speaking, worked? (The walls did eventually fail.) Rome manned their walls. Roman soldiers lived on those walls.
There is no comparison between heavily manned, sturdy Roman walls that were 45 feet tall and 12 feet thick with our unmanned, steel border fence that is 12 feet high and mere inches thick. The proposed construction of the southern fence is a joke. It won’t stop anyone who really wants through it, over it, under it, or around it.
But if you think we should build 2000 miles of 45 feet tall, 12 feet thick walls that also extend into the ground the same depth and width as their above-ground halves, I’m totally in. That’s a wall worth building. It’s not a fence. But it has to be manned or it’d be a waste of time and money to build it.
And if we are going to go that route, why not shoot for the moon and build our own version of the Panama Canal from the Gulf to the Pacific Ocean? That type of barrier would become an economic boom for us with all of the shipping traffic we’d get. And it would physically separate the U.S. from Mexico to such a degree that there would be no battery-operated saws, no ladders, and no tunnels. Problem solved.
Well again, the single layer works and reduces illegals as the articles show, but that minor detail aside, most of us fence fans want the double wall concrete/barb wire model shown in so many conceptual drawings. And that comes with patrols and sensors.
We all have always said that it would be a manned fence. None of us think we just build it and forget it. So if what you say is true, you in fact DO support a fence. That being the case why argue against one at all? Is it not better to support the idea of ‘a fence’ from the get go and then once we get that, negotiate the details?
Sure, I get the battery saws etc. I don’t deny that for a moment. But I don’t, nor do any of us, expect this thing to be pure Black hole/Kryptonite no matter what form it takes. Some shall pass. Humans are resourceful. But the point is that most shall not. A physical barrier complicates entry no matter how one views the situation. And that results in a safer America and fewer Democrat pawns to manipulate against America.
I’ve always told you that I support the right kind of barrier. That hasn’t changed.
The details have already been negotiated, Norm. I jumped on the fence bandwagon up front. (See my posting history regarding Kay Bailey Hutchison’s betrayal of Texans with an amendment to fencing legislation.) Then Congress passed legislation mandating the designs and allocating the money. What we got from that deal is pathetic. It merely slows illegals down for a few minutes. It certainly isn’t manned well enough when the illegals have time to climb over, cut through, tunnel under, etc.
Again, I am not arguing against a barrier. I am pointing out the abysmal failure of the fence we have. Why you ask? I suppose because I am a DBA. Details and data are my business. The data tells me that this fence doesn’t work and isn’t sustainable. (We won’t agree on that.) Also because I know that if something is worth doing, it is worth doing right. As we say in IT, “There are never enough time and resources to do it right, but there are always enough to do it over ... and over ... and over ...” That’s what has happened with this border fence.
If you want to go with a modernized Roman wall, I’m in. If you want to separate the U.S. from Mexico with a Panama-style canal, I’m in. But how do you get there? You can’t if what you have works in any substantial way because our fellow limited-government conservatives will have no appetite for such grand visions. Likewise, if we finish this fence and it proves to be the failure that I believe it is, they will have no appetite for “another fence.”
We refuse to support RINOs (even 80/20 friends) because what we need are conservatives. To me, the same philosophy applies to this fence. BP says they apprehend 1 in ten. What good is a fence that helps stop only 10%? The 90% getting through are overwhelming us.
The answer, of course, is almost none.
We don't lack the ability to completely secure our border. All we lack is the political will.
Almost all of the conservatives I know support putting up an effective fence.
After all, protecting the several states from invasion is one of the primary sworn constitutional duties of our government.
It’s a funny way to not argue against a fence by posting pictures used by LaRaza to show they don’t work and repeat the meme in the face of all contrary evidence that the SD fence is a failure.
Again, giant contradiction.
If you support a working fence then by definition, you have to support the SD fence since it has proven to work. It’s really that simple. Saying it does not when the facts show it does is not support. Repeating the lie that it failed is not support. Nor does it encourage anyone to get on board with an even stronger fence when ‘conservatives’ do this in public.
If your goal is to get a fence up to assist in getting the border protected, you have a peculiar way of going about it that fortunately is shared by practically no one on the pro fence side of the debate.
Palestinians also regularly use ladders to go over or sledgehammers and blowtorches to go through holes in the West Bank wall.
Perfection is a straw man.
Rarely, but sometimes, folks jump the fence at the White House.
Do you think they should tear it down?
Nov. 11, 2013
Israel’s Population, Immigration, and Borders Authority has released dramatic statistics reflecting how effective the construction of a border fence has been at stemming the entry of illegal migrants seeking to cross the border from Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula.
According to the government, the number of illegal entries has declined from the thousands in each recent year to just several dozen this year.
In January, Israel finished building the main portion of the 16-foot high fence, which is made of razor wire and reinforced by military surveillance, including motion sensors and cameras, aimed at keeping out both illegal African migrants and terrorists operating in the Sinai.
According to the most recent quarterly figures published by the Population, Immigration and Borders Authority, 36 people have been caught trying to enter the southern border since January.
It’s an incredible drop after 10,440 were caught in 2012, 17,298 in 2011 and 14,715 in 2010. In the years before that, the numbers were lower but still in the thousands. Beyond the 36 people who were caught at the border during 2013, another 59 who successfully crossed into Israel were detained by immigration authorities elsewhere in the country.
Yeah I agree on the rat plants. I am for Roberts after finding out Orman is a plant himself. Roberts is tons better than Loser Greg Orman. The DNC is funneling him cash and they endorsed him so he is no one I will support. Voting Pat Roberts and Sam Brownback.
The Democrat is Greg Orman our Bernie Sanders.
The situation in Kansas is not the same as California or even Missouri. We have communists running against two decent guys who actually the republican establishment hates. The two guys, Roberts and Brownback, have some failings, but actually are much much better than Rinos like Bob Dole and Bob graves who once were in the same seats. The left is pulling out all stops to beat them. The Establishment is bashing them.
So don’t confuse this for another state’s situation. That Dr. Wolf lost is bad but it’s time to move on because I think fascism has come to America if a republican state turns blue like this. One that votes for people like Rick Santorum in GOP presidential primaries.
I do fear this state is too Rino as proven by the actions of the Kansas GOP in opposing their own candidates. And it has helped to get the leftist in a frenzy to oust them for socialism.
And you have ZOT on yours.
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