Why I'm not a Libertarian

vanity | 08/04/2014 | chuckles

[chuckles]

I'm 63 years old and in my lifetime, I have been political almost all of it. In my youth, the Viet Nam War was topic one, every day, all day. If you were against the war, you were a Democrat and for the war, a Republican. It was an easy line to see and pretty much lasted through Nixon into the Carter years. During Carter, we were reminded that the economy didn't have to remain bullet proof just because we were Americans. This is where I was intrigued by the fledgling libertarians that had the "pure" economic theory that was almost irrefutable when you had a debate about cause and effect. I was taken for awhile, but then as I dug deeper, I saw flaws, like legalized drugs, a non defense, defense, and a real weakness in the right and wrong God thing. I had watched some of my friends die and go to jail over drugs and I felt if the US wanted to play checkers instead of chess with foreign policy, we would end up with a different flag to salute if we weren't careful. It was the lack of religion that really concerned me though. Many I spoke with were for abortion so the woman could exercise her rights to her own body. I would always retort, "What about the babies rights?" Then it would immediately slide into "If you can kill a baby, you can kill the disabled or mentally deficient." It was about the time DR. Death( or Kevorkian) was big in the news. I had to just call myself a conservative and not libertarian or even a Republican. The moral questions always kept me from going whole hog.

Then the Reagan years and pure bliss for 8 years allowed me to calm down and just make money and raise my family. Bush 41 was weak, but I learned to live with it until Carter. The first drop of the hat and taxes were raised, recession was moving in, and Hillary Care was right in our face. Then Gingrich and the revolution moved in and put Clinton in thumb screws. We had the biggest economic boom I can remember due to Republicans holding just the growth of the government down. It was a living laboratory in front of everyone with what works and what doesn't. Nobody learned a damn thing. Bush 43 came in and we had war, but we also had many years of under 5% unemployment. The war was taxing, but we did mediocre in the money department.

Of course, for whatever reason the wars were unpopular and the libertarians showed up again telling us that everything would be better if we just retreated from Iraq and Afghanistan and came home. Well, here we are, out of both wars and reluctant to pop a cap anywhere.

Obama came in with a bad economy due to Democrats allowing anyone with a pulse to buy a house and Bush got the blame even though he and McCain both had hearings warning of the danger. The average skull full of mush blamed Bush, for whatever reason. They can't really tell you what he did to cause the crash, but hey, he was prez when it happened. Our country was ATTACKED from Afghanistan and Iraq was violating a cease fire for several years when they tried to assassinate Bush 41. Frankly, I don't know what my last straw would be, but trying to kill dad might just be it. We knew he had WMD, had already used them, and was denying inspections for months, even though that was a requirement of the cease fire.

Now there's the history. Today, libertarianism is rearing it's head again, but this time, Young people are coming by the droves and it's scares me. They used to just vote Democrat to legalize dope, you know,......... the most important legislation of all time. Now they hear they will have to pay back the debt and that finally, after 40 years wakes them up to the delima of more food stamps, more debt. But then the old bugaboo comes up of right and wrong. We have already murdered 55 million babies, but now, after 225 years, buggery, is now a right. These mental giants are now saying we have been wrong for thousands of years and misunderstand what God really meant. If you watch any talking head shows, it doesn't really matter what flavor they are, they now smugly proclaim so and so is a bigot or homophobe.

It doesn't matter what channel or what show, it has been settled that gay marriage is coming to America. Just as an example, FNC's Greg Gutfeld is very bright and right on many issues, but he has decided that sodomy is normal, and if you don't like it, get ready to be shunned cursed, and generally ridiculed. He at least isn't against defending America, but he also pushed the legalized drug agenda and apparently thinks it's a right to be hired with drugs in your system, even a cop or fireman. What level of impairment would make "your right" illegal,....no comment.

I will tell you, I'm all with the libertarian economic theory,.....it has been shown to work, for thousands of years. But the reluctance to "get involved" in foreign entanglements, just means the entanglers will be on your shore toot suit. I know the quote from George Washington, but a little more history will show we were fighting the Barbary Pirates almost immediately. The fights with Mexico and Cuba, among others were just because they were close to home, but today, we are a missile away from an attack from almost anyone. You have to stay involved or it will eventually come home to roost. A quick look at ISIS right now shows they are working on a coast to coast Caliphate in the Middle East and eventually, someone in the world will have to do something. Who do you think that will be? As far as I'm concerned, we are, right now, engaged in a perpetual war. It may take several different names with differing players, but make no mistake, the babies born today are raised up to kill the infidel. I don't rejoice when an errant bomb kills women and children, but realistically that's just one less bullet for later. My father knew his bombs from his B-24 were hitting private homes, hospitals and schools, but he knew if he bailed out, there was a good chance a 12 year old would stick a pitchfork in him as soon as he landed in a field.

The younger people that have seen what I've seen, still think they are idealistic and stick to the pure doctrine of libertarianism, but the reality is, wars need to be fought, dope is bad even for the people that don't harm others, and there is such a thing as right and wrong and those morals come from God. If we change morals, what morals will we keep? The morals of Molech and Baal where children were thrown in the fire? The morals of Sodom that was judged by God?

We can cut spending and taxes, and the size of government and agree on a balanced budget and printing money. I just can't embrace a philosophy that has NEVER WORKED.

For those that think it's never been tried, We have a libertarian right now that is allowing the world and the US to disintegrate because he doesn't want to get involved. Just look around and you will see what libertarians have wrought. The drug laws are a mess, and the world is erupting into chaos. The borders are disintegrating and they love it. Nationalism just gets in the way of economics and the adjusting of the wages downward to the lowest common denominator. Just think how grand it would be if we took in the $2 a day people to peel our grapes for us and wash our feet. If Obama would just adhere to their libertarianism in economics. Unfortunately, he is a Keynesian, another failed theory.

There are many libertarians in the Republican party, but that is only because they can't be elected on their own. Rand Paul will draw a percentage from conservatives and cause trouble for real conservatives and sap their money. Make him Treasury Secretary or something, but he will never be president. Right now, the Tea Party is a mixture of libertarians and conservatives. I will vote conservative and pick a candidate out of the Tea Party to do it. Pure libertarianism,.......NOPE!

[Usagi_yo]

The anti-war movement was actually co-opted by the Democrats

Reagan gave us one of the most vilest things this country has, but I forgive him because he did it in all earnest. Every law the government makes gets corrupted as time goes by.

Asset forfeiture.

[Blueflag]

I am not a capital “L” libertarian because the party tends to run nut cases for candidates.

I see myself as a Constitutional ‘originalist,’ a social and economic libertarian, capitalist, pragmatist, and anti-federalist in the 1787 way, and a moral conservative Christian.

In other words, the modern Tea Party. ;-)

[VR-21]

BlueFlag, you spoke for me as well.

[Drango]

Losertarians a just strange.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

Nice broad brush you got there.

How many Republicans actually stand for the beliefs that they're supposed to be standing for?

There are pro-life, pro-national security, pro-border security, and pro-traditional values libertarians; just as there are pro-abortion, pro-interventionist, pro-homosexual, and pro-open border Republicans.

I am a proud conservative-libertarian, and yes, the two ideologies go hand-in-hand and compliment each other.

[Moonman62]

Libertarians are anarchists who own property.

[mlo]

You believe in freedom as a principle, a fundamental human right, or you don’t. If you believe in it only for people that do what you approve of, you don’t really believe in it.

[DiogenesLamp]

Libertarian economic theory can be traced back to Adam Smith. Conservative Social theory traces back to Edmund Burke.

What many people do not know is that Adam Smith and Edmund Burke were good personal friends, and their theories were intended to work together, not be regarded as two separate and mutually exclusive ideas.

No economic system will function without strong moral underpinnings to protect it.

Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition to put moral chains upon their own appetites, — in proportion as their love to justice is above their rapacity, — in proportion as their soundness and sobriety of understanding is above their vanity and presumption, — in proportion as they are more disposed to listen to the counsels of the wise and good, in preference to the flattery of knaves. Society cannot exist, unless a controlling power upon will and appetite be placed somewhere; and the less of it there is within, the more there must be without. It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things, that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters.

Edmund Burke 1791

Morality is necessary to the function of civil society. You can't have a financially free, but morally corrupt society. It will collapse.

[TADSLOS]

Libertarians are anarchists who own property.

LOL, and want their property protected by the same governing system that anarchists want to burn.

[chuckles]

I didn’t say I was a Republican. I’m a conservative. As long as conservatives have a place in the Rep party. I will vote rep. When they decide social matters don’t matter and make deals with socialists, what part is left for me?

[SoConPubbie]

I see myself as a Constitutional ‘originalist,’ a social and economic libertarian, capitalist, pragmatist, and anti-federalist in the 1787 way, and a moral conservative Christian.

Unless I am misunderstanding your post, you cannot be a social libertarian and a moral conservative Christian.

Those two characteristics cannot co-exist in the same body.

[SoConPubbie]

You believe in freedom as a principle, a fundamental human right, or you don’t. If you believe in it only for people that do what you approve of, you don’t really believe in it.

The idea, if you are a conservative, is that your rights are given to you by God, whose foundational standards define your rights.

[chuckles]

PS. It was really persons like you that I wrote the screed. If you go to a Libertarian function, you will see the side I wrote about. A good example is on Fox on the weekends. Jonathan Hoenig is what I'm writing about. He's a hedge fund manager that wants dope, open borders, and bring the troops home. He's an atheist except when Ann Rand is mentioned and the worship begins. You will be consistently disappointed if you stay with libertarians. John Stossel will openly state he is an atheist and is befuddled how anyone has any morals that don't jive with libertarianism.

It's the pro-life, pro-border, pro-nat security, pro-traditional value, libertarians that are confused. They will be overruled 100% of the time.

One of the other posters already brought up that they were anarchists with property. That just about covers it.

[chuckles]

It's not whether I approve of people's actions, but whether God approves of them. If the Bible states sodomy is an abomination, then why would I argue with Him to say he has the right? Lev 18:22 states we cannot even agree to allow sodomy in our land or the land will "vomit" us out. People are making up their own rights that are specifically denied from God. Children were murdered to please Molech. What was God's opinion of Molech? If drunkards will not see the Kingdom of Heaven, what will a Meth head get?

I watched the strangest thing a few days ago. Pelosi quoted the Bible about Jesus to make a point of why we should open our borders. This is the same lady from a place where men wear dresses and have anal sex in parades. She is responsible for million of dead babies and she wants to use the Bible for her reasoning. Just because a libertarian thinks he has the right to do something doesn't mean it lines up with Natural Law.

[coloradan]

Arming Syrian rebels and supporting the Egyptian Arab Spring protestors and walking guns to know Mexican drug lords isn’t “not getting involved” as you falsely claim.

[Baynative]

"If you were against the war, you were a Democrat and for the war, a Republican."

I am amused at the irony of the people in the streets who wanted less government becoming democrats.

[ansel12]

In other words, the modern Tea Party.

Except that the tea party isn't libertarian, it is actually more religious and more socially conservative than the average republican, not less so.

[chuckles]

No I call that treason. He consistently supports enemies of the US. Supporting our friends is just “foreign policy”. Supporting the wrong side is called “transforming America”. Not supporting anyone is just being more flexible after he’s re elected.

[DManA]

You don’t know what a libertarian is you fool.