Got me one of these Friday for less than $500.
I put a light on the rail, and call it my strobin' chainsaw.
Posted on 01/27/2013 7:05:07 PM PST by ConservativeInPA
I have been surfing the web looking at tactical shotguns. I really don't care for the term "tactical", but what I am looking for is certainly not a bird gun.
Here are my requirements:
1. Barrel Type: A breacher barrel. Does anyone have experience with a breacher choke tube? Do they work? How much to they extend the length of the gun?
2. Barrel Length: Shorter is better to me as maneuverability is important.
3. Stock/Overall gun length: What are the pro/cons of pistol grip, traditional stock and folding stock? I want something very sturdy, as a primary requirement is the ability to breach.
4. Action: Pump or Semi-Auto. I do not have much a preference as I own both types of shotguns. However, a semi-auto may have the ability to have detachable magazines like a Saiga. Or the possibility of a drum magazine for other semi-auto.
5. Detachable/Drum magazines: If the answer to #4 is semi-auto, is there an advantage to a detachable or drum magazine? How durable are they? Can you get them for 3-inch shot shells? Are they reliable?
6. Accessories: My general thoughts on this is pretty simple so far - maybe a mounted mag light of some sort and something for extra ammo. If there are any other ideas, let me know.
7. I may build/mod using an existing shotgun. This is a financial thing, in which I purchase today what may be banned parts in the future and later use to parts when I build on a completely legitimate/legal shotgun.
I recommend something in the Mossberg 500 line- you can dress them up to be tacticool with enough attachments that you cannot lift it, and at a fairly reasonable price. That being said, I like plain old wood- because if you have no ammo, you need a club.
There are no 3” drums out there. 2.75” only.
Mossberg 590A1 pump 9 round (2 3/4 shells), add a Vortex Defense rail system, EOTech M6X-000-A2 M6X-G LED light/laser system, and any other stuff! You can drop the stock for an even shorter CQB use.
MDARMS drums are tough as nails
Saiga 12.. I wish I had one.
ditto
MKA 1919
enuf with the ‘tactical’ crap. every military wannabe uses this term including every police dept from east coast to west coast.
.
For about $50, you can later add a top folding stock to it if you wish. This will give you the versatility of a short shottie for breaches and Close Quarters Battle, but you can fold out the stock for situations with greater stand off..
I have the Mossberg 500 Rolling Thunder; I had the basic 500 without the breacher on the end, but I lost it in the divorce (yes, I know that's pretty redneck when your divorce settlement hinges on a shotgun and hogs, but it did).
They've got a pretty one with the Blackwater logo for $425
I don't have any experience with the Saiga 12 etc, but I have heard that they sometimes have feeding issues; my ex-BIL did with his and this is a common theme I have heard.
And a Mossy can be had for about 1/2 what a Saiga can.....probably even less than 1/2 after the prices skyrocketed.
Another benefit is the recoil isn't overly noticeable with the 500 and 2 3/4" shells. My buddies and I skeet shoot with them and compete against each other. One of our coworker's ex-wife is about 95 lbs with a brick in her pocket and had no problem blasting clay birds with it.
I like plain old wood because if you ever do have to use the gun, it looks more like grampa's shotgun to a jury, and less like something that would cause Chuck Schumer to sh!t himself.
Saiga 12 or Vepr 12 - Either one will work.
Pretty slick. I just checked out a video from the 2012 SHOT show. It doesn't look like a breach gun though. I have AR's. I have semi-auto shot guns. I am looking for something a little more up close and personal ... like breaking down my daughters bedroom door after she and her boyfriend lock the door and having enough left over to put the boy down (just an example, he won't make it up the stairs).
It really is amazing how many here don't get that.
It's even warned against before you post, mercy.....
That is what I have noticed. The most difficult part of doing a build like this is not knowing what you don’t know, e.g., like there is a 3” drum out there and you haven’t found it yet.
A valid thought, if you live in one of those states where you get prosecuted for self defense. Not no so much here.... :)
I’ll talk you INTO it further......We had a couple of the Remington’s with us in Fallujah Nov ‘04; I wish we had the Mossberg 500s with the pistol grip, which is why I added them to my personal collection.
How would that hold up after busting down a door? I must be cheap. I have black duct tape, excuse me, tactical duct tap, LOL. How about just taping a mag light to the gun?
Take a look at the Mesa Tactical LEO Telescoping Recoil Stock Kit (http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=641809 - Order number: WX2-182687).
Reference:
http://www.mesatactical.com/index.php?id=55
http://www.gunworld.com/buyers-guides/taming-the-tiger-some-innovative-ways-reduce-12-gauge-recoil/
I hear ya.. I’ve heard that the Italian-made Benelli Supernova is pricey but a slick piece.. Sounds like the Mossberg’s have more aftermarket goodie attachments though. I would recommend to any buyer to check out the scores of videos on YouTube, save to mention that they are fun to watch!
Here’s my take... I’m old school, and it works. Pre-WWII Winchester Model 12 in 16 gauge. Holds 5+1 of #1 Buckshot (12 .30” pellets, a 2 3/4” 12 gauge #00 Buck is 9 .33” pellets... do the math...) and no dis-connector. What that means is that if I hold back the trigger and work the slide, it fires. No modern gun does that.
What is the handle thing called? Is that all Mossberg product or from third parties?
Build your own. There are several tutorials on Youtube.
Example:
Making a shotgun step by step
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDgHi_9_LX0
...That being said, I like plain old wood- because if you have no ammo, you need a club.....
Based on my personal experience, a wood stock on a 870 can break easily near the metal receiver when you butt stoke some&^% with it, it is hollowed/drilled out for a long bolt that starts at rear of stock behind the butt plate.
http://www.mcclellandgun.com/Gunsmithing/Gunsmithing/GunParts/Remington870Parts.html
Or, if that is all you are packing, it is short enough for CQB/room clearing and getting into/out of vehicles.
And, as you said, they have a wealth of after market goodies available to them because of their popularity. When I picked up mine, one was $305 and the other was $290 and both came standard with the heat shield. Also, for situations like breaches/CQB you're less likely to get a jam or a feeding issue than with the semi-autos.
Agreed. We have a Mossberg 500 tactical and its a great weapon. You cannot go wrong with one.
Thanks. Good info. Saiga’s look pretty hot, but I wonder about Russian reliability. Mossberg is tried and proven. How do you think a folding stock would hold up to breaches, if you use the gun as a battering ram vs. just shooting at point blank range? I am new to this stuff, but my guess by looking at the barrel is the “compensator look” is to release gases when the muzzle is in direct contact with a hard surface, and not to redirect gases for semi-auto accuracy purposes.
But I want Chucky to sh!t himself, and any liberal like him.
I am exercising my 1A rights. I will back it up with my 2A rights.
I just pulled it out and looked all over for the make on that handle. Couldn’t find anything.
Then, I looked at the Mossberg site. It is a Mossberg product actually called, “500 Chainsaw.”
http://www.mossberg.com/product/shotguns-pump-action-500-special-purpose-chainsaw/50460
For your wants I would say a high end semi-auto with an 18 inch barrel and extended 7 round magazine. Also you would need interchangeable chokes.
Although it does not meet all your criteria a double barrel lupara has a lot of good features. First of all they are much shorter than an auto or pump with the same length barrel and you can still have a regular stock.
A hammerless one with ejectors would be best but even the old hammer models would do. If it has ejectors it can be reloaded pretty quickly and they are dead reliable. Of course having 8 shots available is a big advantage of the autos but after two shots you probably will not need another.
2. Barrel Length: Shorter is better to me as maneuverability is important.
***Shortest barrel is 3”, the Taurus Judge revolver which can handle .410 shotgun shells, PDX-1 rounds or .45 rounds.
From another similar thread
The Judge is a pretty impressive and versatile self-defense handgun. It appears to be unique.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgnwO0o2ClQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H5GepjBRsM
5, 10, 15 feet with 000 buck, 4 pellets/ round
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnrDMJvlL4M
Demo gave up on shotgun, went with Judge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY3YYDgDUXs
female shooter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7by3UcLP-M
Also, isn’t the Judge the only handgun that allows washer rounds? Seems like a great compromise gun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kIuI3heYMQ
You can use .OO buck, but you have to worry about ricochet. The plus side is depending on the quality of the door, you can penetrate with .OO....... there was a Marine I ran into at the hospital - they were clearing a hallway and the room doubled back. He reached for the knob to check it - the friendlies outside didn't realize he was on the other side - the way the room twisted, he didn't realize it come off the other hallway. He's missing the tips of some of his fingers from when the breacher fired the lock and his hand was on the other side.
So far as Russian reliability.....I don't know what it is about the Saiga, but they seem to have feeding issues unless you have had them worked on.
It must be an anomaly because I am a die hard AK fan. The little gas tube on my brand new M16A4 (I was the first one it was issued to) couldn't keep up with heavy intense fighting and clogged up and jammed - I had 2 malfunctions requiring remedial action within 5 minutes.......this while pinned down in the street and surrounded 360 degrees. I've put AKs through incredible abuse and they still fire. As an aside, we had guys slinging the M16s and picking up [dead] enemy AKs for the stopping power.
But, that's off topic. Truth be told, I intend to get a Saiga next as I already have a Mossberg. But if you are looking for a good versatile shotgun for breaching - I highly recommend the Mossberg, and also a breacher's kit - (hooligan tool and pry bar).
Based on good reviews and a really cheap price. I recently bought a used TriStar Arms shotgun that had a broken trigger guard. I called the company to order a new one and they said that it would be about twenty bucks for a new one. They also said that they would put it on for free and check out the shotgun for me. They said they like their products to be in top shape.
I sent it in. They got it on a Wednesday. I got a call that morning from them but missed it and they left a message. by the time I could call them back that afternoon, they had replaced the entire trigger group, replaced an "O" ring, test fired it and already had it on it's way back to me. NO CHARGE Top that Bennelli! It shoots great too. That is, it shot great, before it was lost in an unfortunate boating accident. Anyway that kind of service is noteworthy. Click here for a great value.
http://www.tristararms.com/tactical-shotguns.php
I would suggest you start with the workhorse of shotguns the Mossberg 500.
Learn proper shooting technique and master it.
From there you can customize the thung with an adjustable stock and for grip.
I say start with this gun because everyman should learn to shoot a slide action and the maintenance is extremely easy.
Best of all, they are sold many places for $250-$280. It come with two barrels that allow one for home protection, while the other barrel is used for sport shooting, birding, small game and can even be used for large game.
It’s a terrific arm that is so versatile and at a price point anyone can afford.
I started with the 20” Mossberg 500, added an ATI pistol grip collapsible stock (get the angle adapter!). Found a rifled slug barrel for later. Have an ATI heat shield w/ghost-ring sights to add yet.
A breaching-style barrel can be obtained separately if the basic unit is more readily available and affordable.
the Roadblock barrel (looks like a 50cal front end) would be kinda cool, tho’...
This makes it more likely that you will blow it out so the door is no longer held fast.
“Anyone want to talk me out of it?”
why would we. Maximum reliable firepower for the dollar, rock solid design, nothing extra on the basic one and add-on’s galore if that is your thing. Pretty much the most lethality the buck and well build, too.
My local store had a video of one of an SRM 1216, here’s their site... Pretty utilitarian looking :-)
You really shouldn’t have that problem if you drink beer while cleaning yer guns, on the front porch a couple times a week...
LOL
mark
I’ve moved to the double barrel side ... just finished putting rails on a side-by-side with rabbit ears (old west coach style gun). I also cut 2 inches off the stock and added a thick limbsaver butt with five round cuff. The holo sight I’m mounting to the upper picatinny will be sighted to go with the left barrel, which will be the range barrel for specialty (slugs) rounds. A green laser will mount to the end of the bottom rail, for when hip shooting to ‘repel boarders’ and a clip-on sling ring will finish the mods on the lower rail. Found some six round stripper quicks for 12 gauge, for faster reloading. Widener’s may still have a few of the shotties in stock.
I have built my own gas-inpingment M4 clone (16" barrel including compensator, and wrong gas system, so not really an M4) and an M16A3 clone (no select fire). I haven't had any problems, but my shooting conditions are certainly not close to combat.
I reload my own M193 and M885 ammo in addition to some really low grain, fast sh!t for personnel armor penetration (those pesky varmints).
So I am curious, regardless if a weapon is an AK or an M10, is stopping power that different? Is it worthwhile to hump heavier ammo?
I do not recommend a pump for one reason. It is easy to short shuck especially under stress.
They can be mechanically very reliable. When Winchester asked John Browning to design a lever action shotgun, Browning told them that a pump was a much better action. Winchester still wanted a lever action as that is what the company was known for.
Browning did as they asked and designed a lever action repeater. A few years later he patented a pump action then a couple of years after that, patented the model 1897, a true classic.
If you do choose a pump, try to shoot it a lot, preferably in a rural setting and make a habit of immediately shucking a new round as soon as you fire.
I remember my gun club had a Texas Ranger come back to put on a shooting contest. While he was there he did some shooting with a pump. He literally could fire an 870 to where it sounded like a machine gun and he was accurate too.
I have always had great reflexes and have done a lot of shooting but could not even approach his skill level. I believe he could fire that pump faster than I could an auto.
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