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Vanity - Since the election, what are you doing with your money?
11/20/2012 | 4everontheright

Posted on 11/20/2012 10:24:01 AM PST by 4everontheRight

I heard recently that a lot of "wealthy" Americans are selling off their wealth. I am not by any means "wealthy" but really, what does that mean? Government wealthy? Own my own home wealthy? Just wondered what FReepers are doing? Selling? Buying?


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Miscellaneous
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I have 401ks and several mutual funds and I am really thinking about dumping some of them before taxes go up in 2013, but then what do I do? Invest it in land? Food? Anyway of avoiding paying high taxes on the sell? Just wondering what others are doing...figured FReepers were a good place to start.
Oh and Happy Thanksgiving!!!
1 posted on 11/20/2012 10:24:05 AM PST by 4everontheRight
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To: 4everontheRight

There ain’t no money here to do anything with.


2 posted on 11/20/2012 10:26:22 AM PST by mass55th (Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway...John Wayne)
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To: 4everontheRight

What money?


3 posted on 11/20/2012 10:26:48 AM PST by real saxophonist (Stay In The Fight)
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To: 4everontheRight

I’m working through just that right now. It will be the very last of next month when I do it.

If I do, I’ll be withdrawing $5K -$10K per month in cash and putting it somewhere (not electronic)....

I hope to be so ‘poor’ by the end of next year, I qualify for food stamps.


4 posted on 11/20/2012 10:27:38 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: 4everontheRight

I’ve become a crazy prepper.


5 posted on 11/20/2012 10:27:51 AM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: 4everontheRight

Drinking most of it. Things don’t seem so bad any more...


6 posted on 11/20/2012 10:28:45 AM PST by andyk (I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.)
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To: 4everontheRight
Don't spend on anything unless it's absolutely necessary for survival. This will collapse the economy and get this socialist dictator out of office and so we can save our freedom. Go Galt. And you will save a lot of money this way too.

A lot of ramen noodles, beans and rice etc.

7 posted on 11/20/2012 10:28:48 AM PST by Democrat_media (limit government to 5000 words of laws. how to limit gov Quantify limited government ...)
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To: 4everontheRight
Trying to make sure my stores, logistics and commo are in order.

My local Walmart is out of one item, ammo.

5.56mm

8 posted on 11/20/2012 10:30:33 AM PST by M Kehoe
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To: 4everontheRight

You have money? As part of the 1%, it is your duty to give it all to the less fortunate.

As for me, I can’t decide which item on the MickeyD value menu my dollar will go to....

All kidding aside, Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.


9 posted on 11/20/2012 10:31:17 AM PST by Donkey Odious ( Adapt, improvise, and overcome - now a motto for us all.)
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To: 4everontheRight

What you mean “my money” Kemosabe?

Haven’t you heard? Since the election it is now all Obama’s money. Silly person!


10 posted on 11/20/2012 10:31:20 AM PST by Buckeye McFrog
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Donating to Free Republic :)

11 posted on 11/20/2012 10:32:10 AM PST by RedMDer (May we always be happy and may our enemies always know it. - Sarah Palin, 10-18-2010)
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To: 4everontheRight

Part of me wants to up my contribution to my 403b to the maximum because it’s before-taxes money. But my other, even more paranoid side says “One day the government will confiscate those.” So I’m just putting it in savings for now. Of course, I’ve wondered if one day the government will make a move for that too... but at least I think I’d see the warning signs and maybe be able to get there first. It’s much easier to pull your money out of savings than it is these darn retirement accounts where they literally just make it almost impossible to get your hands on it.


12 posted on 11/20/2012 10:32:24 AM PST by A_perfect_lady
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To: 4everontheRight
Convert yuour cash to something that won't be devalued with high inflation kicks in and also is not susceptible to Obama confiscating it for the greater good. Also, if you can do it, it might be a good idea to get it out of the country and denominated in a strong currency that will appreciate against the US dollar.
13 posted on 11/20/2012 10:34:06 AM PST by Truth29
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To: 4everontheRight

Same thing I’ve always done.

Spending wisely and sparingly.


14 posted on 11/20/2012 10:34:57 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: 4everontheRight
I'm paying a lot more for groceries!

Why save $$$ when they can change currency overnight and make what we have now obsolete.

Eat. Drink. Be merry.

Seriously, I'm thankful everyday that I'm as old as I am but feel so sorry for little kids coming up.

My generation is responsible fot the generation that produced the stupid generation.

15 posted on 11/20/2012 10:34:57 AM PST by lonestar (It takes a village of idiots to elect a village idiot.)
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To: 4everontheRight
Anyway of avoiding paying high taxes on the sell?

Not really. The long term capital gains tax is going up in Jan. However, if you sell now, you will pay a short term capital gains tax which is higher than the current long term. Convert the sale quickly and hold the new assets to make them long term...a year and a day I think...and you'll be paying the new long term rate. Screwed either way. Last year was the time to sell stock.

16 posted on 11/20/2012 10:36:11 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts ('Need' now means wanting someone else's money. 'Greed' means wanting to keep your own...)
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To: 4everontheRight

Selling my main house in the South Bay (Los Angeles), paying off the mortgage on my commercial building and leasing out most of it. I’ll keep about 900 sq. ft. to run my freight business, as well as layoff about 5-people.

I’m moving to my “second home” in Palm Springs, let my son run the business and collect about $80K/yr. from the building rent, even if the business produces zero profit, which is pretty much what’s been happening with the Obama economy...


17 posted on 11/20/2012 10:38:26 AM PST by Beaten Valve
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To: 4everontheRight

Are you investing or defending?

Investing is purchasing to increase either the monthly return on the money or to improve the principle or both. By extension, investing can be buying a business or a house and renting, etc. The idea is to improve the monthly cash flow by increasing the amount of money coming in.

Defending is protecting the principle from loss due to taxes, inflation or devaluation (currency devaluation). By extension, defending can be paying off debts or refinancing the house, etc. The idea is to improve the monthly cash flow by decreasing the amount of money flowing out.

Taking money out of a 401K to pay off debt is kind of an expensive proposition in the long run. First you will be hit with a 30% tax on the money coming out. This only makes sense if you have very high interest debt say 25% or higher credit card debt. But if you are concerned that the government is going to effectively take that investment, paying off debt does make sense.

I have seen other combine 401k withdrawal / loans to create a new monthly cash flow picture. This person had a larger home that they no longer needed but were upside down. They tapped their 401K to get right side up, then sold their home, and then borrowed on a smaller home that met their needs. Net savings was over $700 per month. This savings was then used to pay off other debts.

I am of the defensive mindset at this time. Pay of debt as fast a possible, reduce monthly expenses, etc.


18 posted on 11/20/2012 10:41:43 AM PST by taxcontrol
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To: 4everontheRight
I am not moving any money around and I have declared a moratorium on ANY discretionary spending.

Lean times... but I will vote with my dollars, since my ballot obviously means absolutely NOTHING any more!

If all Conservatives would demonstrate the same constraint (a consumer boycott, if you will) with their money, I am sure we could send a LOUD message...

This IS a Capitalist system STILL and hanging on to your dollars will be noticed.

19 posted on 11/20/2012 10:42:02 AM PST by SMARTY ("The man who has no inner-life is a slave to his surroundings. "Henri Frederic Amiel)
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To: 4everontheRight
but then what do I do?

I recently put about half of my IRAs into gold and silver, the rest is in bonds and ZERO, NADA, SQUAT in stocks.

When the economy goes into another recession {and it will in 2013} metals will appreciate and my bonds are fairly safe.

The stock market is going to crap the bed and 7,500 will not be the bottom.

The U3 unemployment will exceed 10% and the real number, the U6 will be 20+++.

obama will blame Bush, the msm will blame Romney and Rush and the UAW will go on strike, demanding a 30 hour work week and 20 weeks of paid vacation.

I also bought more ammo, dry/canned food and water and have a mountain cabin to escape to when the riots start.

Only my family will be welcome and others will be warned and then ...

20 posted on 11/20/2012 10:44:17 AM PST by USS Alaska (Nuke the terrorist savages, start today.)
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To: 4everontheRight

If you have any debt, pay it off now. You want to be as self-sufficient as possible.

Other than that, I’m Going Galt with my money: I’m keeping it out of the system.


21 posted on 11/20/2012 10:44:39 AM PST by bolobaby (Hostess closes? Atlas just shrugged in yo' faces, union beyotches!)
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To: 4everontheRight

If I told them, it would spoil the surprise.


22 posted on 11/20/2012 10:46:04 AM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Gaffer
Somewhat same position.
First thought was to cash IRAs and buy land, then the thought that if nobama really commie's the USA property titles will be worthless.

Next was take cash and hide it, then the thought that they could very easily make hidden Dollars worthless by changing the money and requiring the old money be traded for the new money.

Gold and Silver sounds nice except unless you cut the coins or bullion up into $5 or $25 pieces, you'll end up trading a 1/4 oz for a box of bullets or a bag of groceries.

Bullets? Trouble knowing which cal most traders would want and they are somewhat perishable and hard to carry around in bulk.

To a large degree you are just screwed no matter which way we go. But would like to hear other ideas too.

23 posted on 11/20/2012 10:47:58 AM PST by X-spurt (It is time for OFF YOUR FEET and on the gravy-train)
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To: 4everontheRight

I’m putting what cash I have left into hard assets. Property (unimproved) and physical precious metals. I don’t see any other way to avoid the inflationary collapse that is heading our way. The typical safe havens of bonds and CDs offer nothing to outrun 7%, 10%, or 20% inflationary pressure - I would be losing money every day.


24 posted on 11/20/2012 10:48:18 AM PST by RobertClark (Inside every "older" person is a younger person wondering what the hell happened?)
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To: 4everontheRight
About half again as much 7.62x51mm NATO, about that much more 7.62x39 M43 ComBloc for the AK and its friends, and about double the amount of 5,45mm AK74 ammo I've got on hand.

More Garand clips and the ammo to fill them, some more handgun and shotgun ammo, and a number of other assorted novelties.



25 posted on 11/20/2012 10:53:26 AM PST by archy
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To: M Kehoe
My local Walmart is out of one item, ammo.

I buy my ammo online, by the case.

26 posted on 11/20/2012 10:54:38 AM PST by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: 4everontheRight

Get another passport and invest it there. You should hear what my Filipino bud was able to do with his after 15 years of having 3 passports.


27 posted on 11/20/2012 10:55:35 AM PST by max americana (Make the world a better place by punching a liberal in the face)
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To: taxcontrol
"First you will be hit with a 30% tax on the money coming out."

Hi Taxcontrol, where are you getting the 30% figure? I thought it was 10% penalty on early withdrawal from 401k with no hardship excuse.

28 posted on 11/20/2012 10:59:48 AM PST by Casie (Chuck Norris 2016)
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To: 4everontheRight
Exchange that which you have no control over for something you do.


29 posted on 11/20/2012 11:00:33 AM PST by Errant
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To: andyk

I’d rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.


30 posted on 11/20/2012 11:07:39 AM PST by equaviator (There's nothing like the universe to bring you down to earth.)
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To: 4everontheRight

Took a third of money to Canada. Just in case I have to move someday and we have financial controls.


31 posted on 11/20/2012 11:08:07 AM PST by FastCoyote (I am intolerant of the intolerable.)
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To: X-spurt
Next was take cash and hide it, then the thought that they could very easily make hidden Dollars worthless by changing the money and requiring the old money be traded for the new money

They will not do that. There is too, too much drug money in cash. Somebody could get dead if they tried this. Obama won't take a chance on getting a 'contract' on himself.

32 posted on 11/20/2012 11:08:35 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: 4everontheRight
Land: I think the only land that is valuable right now would be rural land, not land in the city. People want out of cities and onto rural land. You can't go wrong buying long term food as that is going up and up and won't go down anytime soon. That is certainly a hedge on being sure you have plenty of food that will cost you less today than tomorrow.

I am thankful I paid cash for my house so I own it as long as taxes are paid and I considered that when I bought. I went smaller rather than larger to keep utility cost down (think electricity), and keep the amount of taxes down. I am as far divorced from others having a say in my house as a person could be.

I know most people can't afford to pay off their house. I am “old” and had paid off a house so when I moved I had the money from that house to pay cash for this one. I guess that is a trade-off - “old” means a paid for house.

I also don't owe money on my car as I paid cash for that. Insurance is the only cost for it.

I keep smaller bills in cash hidden in the house in case an emergency happens. Hurricanes always take out power and there is no money to be had then. That one was difficult for me as I never think about cash money. I use a debit card and didn't think about cash. When Ike Hurricane was coming, I rushed to the bank to get cash. After Ike, I thought about that and asked myself why I had to do that when I could get money and have it available. Made a special trip to the bank to fix that. If you don't have much cash at home, it's a good thing to get that.

Bank crash: Here's what I think about money in the market whether it's a 401k or not. If banks fail, how much do you trust your bank to still have that money in your name after a year with the bank not opening? Your money is on a microchip, it is not a stack of actual money. What you have is maybe a statement showing you have an amount of money on a microchip. Personally, I would cash it in for actual cash and leave only the amount of money I knew I could survive without if it disappeared. Or, take it all out. This whole situation is mute if you believe banks are not going to fail.

Taxes: If you have a profit if you sell securities now, sell them now and take the profit this year before taxes go up. If you will be taking a loss if you sell, decide if you trust the bank to stay open for another six months or more and that the securities value won't go down more.

Good luck to you and your money.

33 posted on 11/20/2012 11:08:56 AM PST by Marcella (When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.)
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To: Casie

10% penalty but then taxed at the 20% rate in addition. 30% total.


34 posted on 11/20/2012 11:09:11 AM PST by taxcontrol
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To: 4everontheRight

Out of money unfortunatly. Wife looking for work without any luck.


35 posted on 11/20/2012 11:10:43 AM PST by Moleman
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To: taxcontrol
Ok I Googled it. I am right. It is 10% penalty for early withdrawal from a 401k with no hardship. Of course then you will have to pay personal income tax which will vary.

Unless things change at the last minute, Americans who make up to $48,600 will have a 15 percent rate. Between $48,600 and $125,450 a year will have a 28 percent rate, and those who make more than $398,350 will pay a rate of 39.6 percent.

36 posted on 11/20/2012 11:12:09 AM PST by Casie (Chuck Norris 2016)
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To: X-spurt
To a large degree you are just screwed no matter which way we go. But would like to hear other ideas too.

Sometimes I think it would be a good idea to stockpile luxury items for barter. Sugar. Coffee. Cigarettes. Chocolate. Booze...

37 posted on 11/20/2012 11:17:24 AM PST by A_perfect_lady
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To: A_perfect_lady

I am stockpiling seeds. Bought some gold. Thinking of starting a 501c3 which will help some foreign government support their orphaned kids. Will take a large administrative fee from that. Start an S-Corp tha sells gray market chevy Volts. Put your money in there and take draws. Declare a loss at the end of the year. No one is buying Volts anymore?


38 posted on 11/20/2012 11:21:37 AM PST by EQAndyBuzz (George W. Bush is the Emmanuel Goldsten of the modern era.)
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To: Casie

It is the penalty plus the normal tax rate that adds up to about 30%. That of course assumes your normal tax rate is 20%. Mine is right in that range that is why I use 30%. As always, you mileage may be different.

Another option you might consider is a loan against the 401k. Granted you will have to pay it back and the loan is around 7% interest (to yourself) but if you are paying mid level interest rates (10 to 15+% on credit cards) you can “refinance” your debt by taking a loan and pay of your cards. Use the “extra” in savings on the cards to pay off other debts faster.

Again, your specifics my be different. This is only being presented as options to consider.


39 posted on 11/20/2012 11:21:37 AM PST by taxcontrol
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To: 4everontheRight

40 posted on 11/20/2012 11:25:56 AM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: taxcontrol
This has turned out to be a more interesting thread than I originally thought it would be...so many interesting posts! I appreciate all the posts more than I can say.

Right now I have about $128k in mutual funds. I really want to use that money to maybe buy a piece of property but not sure the best way to do that or if that is my best option. I still have a mortgage on my home and am hesitant to use that money to pay it off...only a 3.75% rate.

How does someone use a mutual fund to buy silver or gold? Any thoughts or advice on that?

I also am not sure what immediately to do with the money I withdraw...keep it in savings until I do something with it? I have never sold any of my funds before so this is all just beyond me. Almost overwhelming really.
Thanks again everyone for the information...I appreciate all the posts and opinions!
41 posted on 11/20/2012 11:26:57 AM PST by 4everontheRight (And the story began with..."Once there was a great nation......")
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To: 4everontheRight

You don’t pay tax on a 401k, in fact you get to deduct 401k contributions from your taxable income.


42 posted on 11/20/2012 11:28:36 AM PST by FewsOrange
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To: 4everontheRight

Going Galt. Family stopped exchanging Xmas gifts years ago (we play games and build up a “pot”...winnings go to a selected conservative charity).

Sold home months ago to move to Detroit for job (had to...didn’t want to...hate it here)...enjoying renting actually. But keeping family cottage for retreat and stocking it well. Making plans with family in case of several scenarios. Just finishing paying daughter’s college education so neither of us has debt from that :)

Trying to enjoy the little things and learning all about prepping....didn’t start in new company’s 401k...am paying off remainder of debt first..want to be able to move on moment’s notice.


43 posted on 11/20/2012 11:30:00 AM PST by ConsStuckInDetroit
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To: 4everontheRight

I am not an economist. Any here? I’m trying to figure some of this out.
The federal government receives money from taxes. They do sell a few things, but not much. So, they borrow money to make up the difference between what they take in for taxes and what they pay out. How do they borrow this money? I have some vague idea of how all this works, but I would like to be sure, and I’m no expert.


44 posted on 11/20/2012 11:33:37 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: 4everontheRight

If you are close to retirement, you may want to consider an annuity fund. If you have a few years left - say 10 or more years before retirement, you may want to consider purchasing the least expensive house you can find in a good area. Then use some of the funds to clean up / repair and update the house. From there you can find a rental agency to rent the house for you.

Those that take that path, expect a 1% return on their money each month. So if you assume 120,000 is spent on the house, you should expect to see a rent somewhere around $1,200 per month. Check with your local rental management companies first to see if your area is able to support that level of payment.

Monthly funds should first be used to pay off high interest debt. After that is paid off, save up the monthly payments to eventually purchase a second house. Rinse, Repeat

This slow but sure plan will often result in a housing portfolio worth 400k to 500k in 20 years with no debt. Further, you will have about 4,000 per month of income to retire on with no debt.


45 posted on 11/20/2012 11:38:50 AM PST by taxcontrol
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To: archy

A little surprise for the black-helicopter boys.


46 posted on 11/20/2012 11:42:32 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the psychopath.)
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To: 4everontheRight

I’ve been working very hard to scrape together about $20 for seeds this spring. That’s the extend of my spending money.


47 posted on 11/20/2012 11:43:18 AM PST by Ellendra (http://www.ustrendy.com/ellendra-nauriel/portfolio/18423/concealed-couture/)
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To: ConsStuckInDetroit

Well - my plan after the election was to go galt. Had a very interesting life changing event crop up, and decided to come off the Galt. Time will tell if that was the right decision.


48 posted on 11/20/2012 11:45:04 AM PST by JCBreckenridge (They may take our lives... but they'll never take our FREEDOM!)
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To: 4everontheRight

What money?


49 posted on 11/20/2012 11:46:53 AM PST by null and void (America - Abducted by Aliens...)
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To: Democrat_media

I agree with you. I have money invested through NY Life. It’s just sitting. I own my home, drive a 12 year old truck, pay all bills on time in full every time. Fortunately I don’t need to dip into savings now so I’m content to sit out the situation.


50 posted on 11/20/2012 11:48:59 AM PST by Sunshine Sister
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