WHY DID NO AMERICAN MAN OR WOMAN JUMP THE BATMAN KILLER?

Vanity. | 07/21/12 | Golux

[golux]

There are lots of experts in this forum of one kind or another. Here we have James Holmes. Why wasn't he taken down? Would you have done it?

[golux]

Some of these “stupid passing thoughts” as you call them are echoes of what some people do and train for in order to protect innocent American civilians. My own service was almost ridiculously modest but I hardly discount the opinions of the men and women of this forum many of whom are hardened individuals and worthy of careful attention.

[AnAmericanAbroad]

Thanks.

Sad to say, this was a no-win scenario for pretty much anyone unlucky enough to be in that cinema.

I’ve been pepper-sprayed (by my STUPID ex-girlfriend who was “horsing around” with her little purse canister of it), and I can tell you, I would not, under any circumstances, have been able to acquire a black-clad target in a mostly dark environment with all hell breaking loose around me. I’m a very good shot, but even armed, I would not have attempted to take out the perp for fear of hitting an innocent bystander.

My father, an old Navy vet who trained me in marksmanship told me, “If you can’t clearly see your target, you don’t shoot.”.

[Humbug]

let me amend that to:

what any average person should ever have to deal with...

[kabar]

They should have been, but that is a whole different issue. The point is that how can anyone expect unarmed people to charge this guy who "sprayed the theater with bullets from an AR-15, a 12-gauge shotgun and at least one of two .40-caliber handguns police have recovered?"

When police apprehended him outside the Century Aurora 16 theater Friday morning, Holmes had four guns on him. He was carrying:

– An AR-15 assault rifle

– A Remington 8-gauge 1270 shotgun

– Two 40-caliber Glock handguns

Three of those weapons, including the shotgun and the assault rifle, he brought into the theater, according to Aurora Police Chief Dan Oates. A single shooter with three high-powered guns: It’s hardly shocking that the massacre took the lives of 12 and injured 59 others. During a press conference Friday morning, Oates couldn’t even put a number on the shots Holmes fired. The chief admitted it was beyond his team’s scope of calculation, limiting his confirmation only to “many, many rounds.”

[newzjunkey]

You’re assuming someone didn’t try to stop him and wound up dead.

Absolutely. There's no way to know.

For those wondering why no one took a shot, or believe someone could've... he was well armed and well armored, there was a gas canister used to provide cover and hundreds of innocents in a panic in a darkened theater.

[tsowellfan]

Here’s a better question posed by Rep. Gohmert: Did No One Else in Aurora Theater Have a Gun?

http://news.yahoo.com/rep-gohmert-did-no-one-else-aurora-theater-183314031—abc-news-politics.html

[Tzimisce]

He could have had a knife or an infected needle.

He could have had an accomplice.

He was killing people. He went into a theater where he knew there would be unarmed, unprepared people. He was in body armor with crotch and neck guards. The shooter knew he would cause terror.

I’m sure most people in that theater were confused as to what was going on. A lot of them thought it was a publicity gimmick.

I don’t fault anyone who ran. I don’t think they’re cowards.

[kabar]

The next dude who tries this will get rushed, big time.

I'll hold your coat. How come the Ft Hood shooting did not have that effect?

[Redcloak]

Quite probably because CCW is illegal in Aurora.

CO is, IIRC, a shall-issue State; but, some municipalities have been allowed to get away with local bans. Aurora is one of those municipalities.

[skr]

Excellent point. Unsuccessful valor is rarely noticed.

[Terry Mross]

The shooter looked like a member of a SWAT team. And that’s part of the problem. We have been conditioned that anyone dressed lile Holmes is a cop. By the time they figured out what was happening, it was too late.

We all like to think we would have done something. But I probably would have hunkered down or ran like they did. But I wouldn’t run off and leave my wife.

[oh8eleven]

How many people could possibly have had the opportunity to charge him?
One of the survivors said he was on the floor and the perp's feet were right next to his face.
My first thought was - why didn't you reach out and pull his feet out from under him?
Of course I had that thought in the safety of my own home ... nevertheless ...

[SeminoleCounty]

After watching the lynching George Zimmerman is going through, here where I live, after defending himself from a “No Limit N-—” ghetto thug...I can understand a little bit more why people are hesitant to defend themselves

More and more, as the media paints Holmes as “mentally ill” ,and, not a “criminal”, you can be sure this same media would have attacked any one that would defend themselves

Of course, the theatre’s ban on weapons limited any one from defending themselves.....which is why I am against any business having any rule that punishes customers and employees from defending themselves against real-time criminal acts....A businesses rights end when they interfere with mine...especially my Right to Self Defense

[golux]

Great analyses. I like to think that I would have gone for the flashes. I think I would have. I certainly pray that I would have had the courage to attack despite preconceptions. (Bay - La Vie Claire?)

[Recovering Ex-hippie]

I don’t think anyone is “blaming the victims”!

It is more of a discussion to try to understand what happened and how people would react..and how situations of attack are very different.

[Salgak]

Question on your three “suggestions”

1. You routinely carry flares when going to the movies ??

2. You could tell he was wearing a gas mask, were familiar with that type of mask that you knew where the intakes were, and could manage not to get shot while getting close enough to install said bags, and KEEP THEM ON while he was choking ?>

3. Aurora is a no-concealed-carry town. So, how did you lawfully carry a weapon into the theater ??

[Cvengr]

Infantry are trained in immediate response to orders. For example, “AMBUSH RIGHT!” everybody immediately flanks right and charges firing with whatever you have.

You know you will suffer tremendous casualties, but if you do not prevail, you are in a kill zone and will be killed.

The WWII and Korean War generation had grown up playing in the outside and had a greater instinct to mix it up in a fist’ocuffs and prevailing.

This generation at best might be tooled up to more quickly play computer games, but hesitates at real world fist o cuffs.

Even with this perspective, some reports indicated he was armed with upwards of 2-9mm/40cal pistols, a shotgun and an AR-15. Smaller caliber pistols and possibly the AR-15 in single shot mode might be rushed before collapsing, but the shotgun is a formidable equalizer.

It would probably take 3-5 men rushing him concurrently and 4 being killed before one could engage him physically, then others could join in. He might have been able to also defend off 20-40 consecutively in that situation.

I haven’t heard if he deployed smoke or teargas. If teargas, such as CS, then it incapacitates and the rush would only last as long as you could hold your breath in those tight quarters.

On the other hand, with the gas mask, his visibility is greatly confined so it would be much easier to catch him from a blind spot.

For those under attack, you wouldn’t know how many attackers there were,..necessarily, adding to the uncertainty.

Most hand-to-hand combat situations are over within 2 seconds. A knife in a hand fight prevails and a gun is a great equalizer in a knife fight. Automatic weapon fire gains fire superiority and it takes equal to 3x as much firepower to gain superiority depending upon the endurance, motivation, and willpower of those engaged.

[golux]

My father, an old Navy vet who trained me in marksmanship told me, “If you can’t clearly see your target, you don’t shoot.”
Yes, me too, but there were the flashes?

[Recovering Ex-hippie]

I am glad you KNOW so well why anyone is posting in this discussion. We are so lucky to have such freeprs who are sooo above us less brilliant mortals on the thread.

Just because there is a point raised and a discussion ensues does not mean we are “judging’ or finding fault with those in that nitemare.

I for one, have a better understanding of the situation and how people do react and why...thanks to many excellant posts.

And btw, just maybe..discussing and analyzing this situation MAY help in other situations of attack,even if not exactly the same...or prevent such carnage. THE military and security agencies routinely have these kinds of discussions. So maybe we should just let THEM do it and shut up.
If you don’t like the discussion, move on.

[Revolting cat!]

Your question was a barely formed passing thought. An uninformed one at that if you read post #21. Does everyone’s uninformed passing thought deserve its own thread here? “No, of course not”, you’ll answer, “only MINE!” And it couldn’t have been asked on any one of the dozens existing threads? No, have bring attention to one’s deep thoughts!

Learn to develop thoughts, write complete paragraphs, and research your questions, is my advice.

Don’t feel bad, there’ll be a dozen more such threads in the next 12 hours on this site which was once a discussion forum before deteriorating into a chat room of comic book fans.