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Vanity, next time you cuss the USPS....
USPS ^ | Today | Me

Posted on 07/19/2012 8:50:15 PM PDT by MrPiper

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To: brytlea

You seem to take this as a theoretical proposition.

The fact is the institution called the USPS did not set aside funds to pay for the promises they made to their employees.

Now the bill is coming due. And the money isn’t there.

Now what?


101 posted on 07/19/2012 10:35:35 PM PDT by DManA
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To: cableguymn
you left out the most important part.. So they can raid said fund,

you sir, have a clue! USPS is a cash cow.

102 posted on 07/19/2012 10:37:05 PM PDT by MrPiper
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To: brytlea

You seem to take this as a theoretical proposition.

The fact is the institution called the USPS did not set aside funds to pay for the promises they made to their employees.

Now the bill is coming due. And the money isn’t there
Now what?

You have all the answers. What do we do?


103 posted on 07/19/2012 10:37:20 PM PDT by DManA
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To: All

The Post Master General has a word...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nKlzQo3Wqo


104 posted on 07/19/2012 10:37:55 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: MrPiper

I will defend your right to spout nonsense to the death.


105 posted on 07/19/2012 10:40:10 PM PDT by DManA
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To: DManA
The fact is the institution called the USPS did not set aside funds to pay for the promises they made to their employees.

just like Social Security.... Hmmmmmmm

106 posted on 07/19/2012 10:40:36 PM PDT by MrPiper
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To: MrPiper

Then private equity will pay a premium for it.


107 posted on 07/19/2012 10:42:00 PM PDT by DManA
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To: MrPiper

SSI is another scam. What is your point?


108 posted on 07/19/2012 10:43:37 PM PDT by DManA
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To: MrPiper
Have to call it a night, work tomorrow, like I said:

48 hrs, 1 lb package $5 bucks', still a good deal!

109 posted on 07/19/2012 10:46:28 PM PDT by MrPiper
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To: DManA

The problem with having a discussion with you is that I have said nothing to lead you to this. I asked you what we do about the Constitutional issue. I don’t have “all” of the answers. The USPS certainly has problems. You don’t think there should be any postal service at all. I disagree. I’m not sure how you get from there to me thinking I have all of the answers. This is why I think engaging with you is a waste of time.


110 posted on 07/19/2012 10:50:22 PM PDT by brytlea (An ounce of chocolate is worth a pound of cure)
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To: brytlea
No. You put it all on me

Then you probably need to get to work on that.

No, obviously I'm not going to be able to change this. And my god, even on an ostensible conservative I'm seem to be fighting the current.

No. Total collapse. Get ready for it.

111 posted on 07/19/2012 10:58:48 PM PDT by DManA
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To: DManA

that is

even on an ostensible conservative web site


112 posted on 07/19/2012 11:01:58 PM PDT by DManA
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To: DManA

I asked a serious question (is there a Constitutional issue) you gave a flip answer. My take? You are just venting about the government. So, what’s the point? Nothing as far as I can see. We all don’t like the direction the government is going. However, our Founders did put the USPS in place, and even some conservatives believe it has a job (we may not like what it has become today, but that is not the entire issue at hand).
Obviously it’s open for discussion, but you don’t seem at all interested in discussion, you have made up your mind, and so, as far as I can see, this is completely pointless. I don’t know what else I can say here. It does not make me less conservative than you. It simply means we don’t see eye to eye on this.


113 posted on 07/19/2012 11:09:25 PM PDT by brytlea (An ounce of chocolate is worth a pound of cure)
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To: DManA

So Ben Franklin was wrong when he argued that every citizen should be afforded the right to secure, private communication. Universal access and delivery shouldn’t be something the Federal Government guarantees and protects. I am not with you on that. Does the Post Office need to get rid of the archaic bloated bureaucracy that is causing the top down rot? Absolutely IMO.


114 posted on 07/19/2012 11:15:19 PM PDT by Kudsman (Repeal the 17th, restore the Republic.)
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To: brytlea

Yes, the Constitution says delivering mail is a function of the Federal Government. That is an anachronism. Change it. Ok?

You want to discuss it? Fine go ahead. You bet I’ve made up my mind. Change it. I challenge you.


115 posted on 07/19/2012 11:15:44 PM PDT by DManA
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To: Kudsman

Ben Franklin was right in 1750. Ben Franklin would agree with me in 2012. This does not need to be a function of the Federal Government.


116 posted on 07/19/2012 11:18:15 PM PDT by DManA
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To: MrPiper

Because of so many fools in this country we might lose the Postal Service which is in the Constitution while retaining IRS, EPA, FDA, FCC, Dept of Energy, Education, and so on, none of which the Founders established. Congratulations “conservatives”!


117 posted on 07/19/2012 11:19:49 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong!)
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To: MrPiper

Timely post.

I quit using UPS this month for all our retail accounts. USPS matches their delivery times, and usually beats them by days, plus (for now) delivers on Sat. A BIG plus for our smaller retailers.

Fed Ex ground was real good at first. Then the prices went up to UPS levels and the service went down to UPS levels.

I cannot count the times UPS let a package sit at the station rather than deliver it early. Yeah they get it there, but no sooner then they have to.


118 posted on 07/19/2012 11:40:50 PM PDT by moehoward
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To: DManA

Then that is where our disagreement lies. I believe Ben Franklin was right for eternity. And furthermore I believe that Ben Franklin believed he was right for eternity.


119 posted on 07/19/2012 11:42:48 PM PDT by Kudsman (Repeal the 17th, restore the Republic.)
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To: Kudsman

You so do not understand Franklin.

Franklin would LAUGH right in your face.


120 posted on 07/19/2012 11:48:53 PM PDT by DManA
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To: DManA

I would have loved to meet the man so questioning, yet so secure in his convictions, that he dared to try them. It would have been my pleasure to be humbled by his notice. You, I will bid adieu.


121 posted on 07/19/2012 11:59:20 PM PDT by Kudsman (Repeal the 17th, restore the Republic.)
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To: LachlanMinnesota; muawiyah; Kudsman; MrPiper
You guys have got to be kidding me, don't believe the hype.
Although the Postal Service does not obtain direct federal appropriations (with a minor exception), its claims that it receives no government aid are deceptive because they ignore numerous, valuable implicit government subsidies. Unlike private-sector businesses, the Postal Service never owes federal income taxes, state and local income taxes, state and local sales taxes, or state and local gross receipts taxes; it is exempt from inventory and property taxes on assets it owns; and it pays a low-cost alternative to the unemployment tax. The government also subsidizes the Postal Service by granting it numerous regulatory favors and governmental powers. Some of the most important ones are exemption from motor vehicle licensing and registration requirements, immunity from parking tickets, exemption from local zoning and land use regulations, immunity from antitrust laws, and power of eminent domain. Moreover, the Postal Service's government connection enables it to borrow at a subsidized interest rate. The Postal Service's indirect government subsidies, which are sweeping even compared to those at other government owned or sponsored businesses, hide financial weaknesses at the agency and are a drain on government treasuries at the national, state, and local levels.

This report estimates the magnitude of several of the Postal Service's hidden government subsidies and finds that the total dollar amount may exceed $1 billion annually. The report estimates that, on the Postal Service's operations in 1997, its income tax exemptions gave it a subsidy of approximately $500 million, about $415 million from the federal government and about $75 million from state and local governments. An estimate of the Postal Service's total income tax, sales tax, and property tax subsidies in 1997 is $1.2 billion. Moreover, because these estimates omit some tax and regulatory benefits, they understate the full amount of the government aid. If the Postal Service had lost its subsidies—that is, if it had been treated comparably to other businesses—it likely would have been forced to report a loss in 1997.


122 posted on 07/20/2012 12:38:44 AM PDT by MrShoop
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To: MrPiper

I like USPS. All revenue is from counter sales. The Fed screws it continuously.


123 posted on 07/20/2012 12:42:35 AM PDT by Gene Eric (Demoralization is a weapon of the enemy. Don't get it, don't spread it!)
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To: Revolting cat!

Unlike those other agencies, USPS is self-funding via counter sales.


124 posted on 07/20/2012 12:44:26 AM PDT by Gene Eric (Demoralization is a weapon of the enemy. Don't get it, don't spread it!)
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To: Gene Eric

Congress should leave the PO alone and concentrate on the all important job of overseeing baseball. /s


125 posted on 07/20/2012 1:00:26 AM PDT by glyptol
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To: glyptol

Congress is a #ing joke.


126 posted on 07/20/2012 1:02:41 AM PDT by Gene Eric (Demoralization is a weapon of the enemy. Don't get it, don't spread it!)
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To: MrPiper

I have sent at least 40 flat-rate boxes, loaded with all kinds of food and other items, to Iraq and Afghanistan at a cost of about $12 / box. (Most of these went to combat Marines at forward operating positions, ie., way outside the wire.) I know a lot of the transport was done by Marines but no matter how you cut it that’s a great deal.

The USPS made sure the boxes got to Iraq and Afghanistan.
For $12 each.


127 posted on 07/20/2012 1:07:43 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: MrShoop
Sometimes somebody will say that ~ failing to note that even GE, when it can claim it didn't make any profits, does not pay federal or state income taxes.

It is prohibited by law from making a profit anyway!

Regarding state and local licensure, property taxes, etc, USPS is a large enough entity that should this ever be a problem it could easily relocate all its major facilities in a state imposing such penalties to another nearby state that didn't. It is anticipated that the states would be quite competitive given the rather environmentally benign character of your typical postal operation.

That is to say, if Massachusetts wanted to tax USPS, they could move to surrounding states to avoid such a tax.

Now all of that is separate and apart from the fact USPS Is a wholly owned creation of the federal government which acted under the "post office and post roads" clause. It is simply not taxable by a state, nor can it be regulated by a state.

Regarding zoning and land use laws, USPS is subject to a federal law that encourages it to adhere to local and state laws in that regard anyway. In addition USPS long ago announced it would follow such laws to be a good neighbor. On top of that, however, federal law does allow USPS and DOD to FILL WETLANDS! So, if you want that to happen, what you do is get USPS to bring in a facility and fill those wetlands. In about 75 years you'll find that property back on the market all nice and dry!

128 posted on 07/20/2012 3:21:26 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: cableguymn
They already raided it doncha' know.

The whole point of the prefunding fund was to balance the federal budget ~ to close the deficit. Listen to the Senate committee that came up with the idea ~ this wasn't done to fill any postal need, nor even, really, to do anything about employee retirement. No one working at USPS today, or who has ever worked for USPS would benefit from this particular deal.

In effect, this was nothing but USPS being forced to subsidize the US government!

129 posted on 07/20/2012 3:30:30 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: DManA; MrPiper
While working at USPS employees pay into a retirement fund ~ as does USPS on their behalf. Their pensions are 100% funded.

Other federal pensions are not.

USPS could collapse and go out of business and that would not affect postal pensions.

130 posted on 07/20/2012 3:33:45 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: ctdonath2
Probably not. You do realize the Postal Rate Commission ~ which controls the rates USPS can set ~ is not the same as the Postal Service Board of Governors ~ right?

The fact you melded the two different functions and organizations together suggests you are just spouting and have nothing behind it.

The postal CEO is called the Postmaster General. He has no authority whatsoever over the Postal Rate Commission.

131 posted on 07/20/2012 3:38:40 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Bob
Words are one thing; money is another.

They didn't come up with the money!

132 posted on 07/20/2012 3:43:25 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: MrPiper

Books? USPS is generally pretty good in my area, but the occassional screw up can ruin a day - especially if you didn’t even realize the imprtant letter/package that didn’t get delivered was on the way.


133 posted on 07/20/2012 5:21:43 AM PDT by trebb ("If a man will not work, he should not eat" From 2 Thes 3)
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To: muawiyah

Fully funded assuming the administrators earn 8%/year return on funds, and assuming Uncle stupid stands ready to make up any deficit.


134 posted on 07/20/2012 6:58:16 AM PDT by DManA
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To: Kudsman; brytlea; mylife

Yes, I contacted the post office each time. I asked that the packages be tracked and their policy is to *WAIT 30 DAYS” before they track.

I guess that gives the postal worker(s) time to cover their tracks.


135 posted on 07/20/2012 7:06:25 AM PDT by ladyjane
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To: DManA

Source?


136 posted on 07/20/2012 7:13:13 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Source for what? How pension systems work? What assumptions apply? Look it up.


137 posted on 07/20/2012 7:15:43 AM PDT by DManA
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To: muawiyah

Exactly why they are failing. Exactly why they should be privatized.


138 posted on 07/20/2012 7:19:27 AM PDT by DManA
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To: DManA
No, not how pension plans, per se work, but how the United States Government's pension plan works ~ that's the one we are talking about.

The Office of Personnel Management plays the part of "the Administrator" ~ but they do not have the investment latitude of the private sector, or the state and local governments.

We need to know where, exactly, you got your numbers for the investment plan we are talking about.

139 posted on 07/20/2012 7:23:18 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: mylife
UPS knows my schedule, comes back when they know I am home and asks for a signature.

UPS only asks for a signature if the sender requested proof of delivery with signature (extra charge).

The USPS asks for a signature if the package is insured for over $50 and will leave a note in your mailbox if there is no one home.

140 posted on 07/20/2012 7:25:46 AM PDT by Fresh Wind ('People have got to know whether or not their president is a crook.' Richard M. Nixon)
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To: DManA
I have a plan already developed to privatize the USPS. Several things ~ (1) No property taxes or we don't do business in your area, (2) No income taxes either, (3) Immedite leveraged buy-out of both UPS and Fed-Ex ~ to regularize things eh!
141 posted on 07/20/2012 7:30:30 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: DManA
I have a plan already developed to privatize the USPS. Several things ~ (1) No property taxes or we don't do business in your area, (2) No income taxes either, (3) Immediate leveraged buy-out of both UPS and Fed-Ex ~ to regularize things eh!
142 posted on 07/20/2012 7:31:01 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: MrPiper

I regularly ship USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate Boxes. And when I ship they give me the estimated delivery date. I can ship from Ohio to most anywhere in the country and it will be delivered the 2nd day, if not the first. I probably spend more than $100 a month with the Post Office...I like the service, and the counter people, and I have not had anything I shipped ‘lost’.

I have had an occasional problem with stuff sent to me via UPS...breakage.


143 posted on 07/20/2012 7:54:38 AM PDT by GGpaX4DumpedTea (I am a Tea Party descendant...steeped in the Constitutional Republic given to us by the Founders.)
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To: muawiyah

Distinction without difference.

Whatever the organization of the USPS governing body, upshot is that those with the power to set prices refuse to do so in a manner consistent with cost realities and profit goals. Any business operating in that manner would have those decision makers ejected by stockholders in short order.

“Have nothing behind it”? Come on! Imagine a grocery store which had two separate boards: one controlled operations, the other pricing, and neither had authority over the other. How long would the store last if the pricing board refused to set to _at_least_ break-even levels? It would be bankrupt in short order! Ditto here: the Postmaster General may run operations, and the Postal Rate Commission sets pricing, and so long as the latter refuses to raise prices to what the former can bring expenses down to match, the USPS is on a fast track to bankruptcy. It’s ridiculous, and you’re defending it!


144 posted on 07/20/2012 8:18:02 AM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: muawiyah

I can’t make sense of your “proposals”.

(3) Immedite leveraged buy-out of both UPS and Fed-Ex ~ to regularize things eh!

What?!?!


145 posted on 07/20/2012 8:34:58 AM PDT by DManA
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To: Bronzy

My mom just found out that if you live with in a mile of the Post office they don’t have to pick up your mail unless they have some to deliver. It is a “courtesy” they may or may not do.


146 posted on 07/20/2012 8:40:00 AM PDT by CARDINALRULES (Tough times never last -Tough people do. DK57 -- 6-22-02)
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To: DManA
I want to take UPS and FedEx out of the picture ~ an airline with a delivery service, and a delivery service that owns airplanes ~ what's not to like.

You didn't imagine a newly privatized USPS would grovel!

147 posted on 07/20/2012 8:57:19 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: ctdonath2
The representataives of the Stockholders are members of Congress.

Tell you what, in my experience, most Congress critters really don't care about the topic. That's why they do nothing, but you wouldn't fire the PMG simply because Congress is full of crooks!

148 posted on 07/20/2012 9:25:51 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: DManA

It is impossible to change a made up mind. I have no interest in that challenge or in discussing this with you. As I thought I made clear, I don’t want to waste my time. I don’t know how else to put it to make you understand.


149 posted on 07/20/2012 9:30:39 AM PDT by brytlea (An ounce of chocolate is worth a pound of cure)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo
The postal deficit is due to Congress requiring the USPS to prefund employee health benefits for the next 75 years.

When did that start? Recently?

See Figure 1 at: USPS Report from 2000

According to that chart, the USPS has been running deficits of a few billion dollars in most of the years going back to 1972.

150 posted on 07/20/2012 9:33:39 AM PDT by Bob
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