Posted on 07/04/2012 7:43:33 AM PDT by wintertime
Here are a few suggestions that would cost the taxpayer nothing and possibly save them BILLIONS :
1) Open up the GED to any child of **any** age. Remove all age restrictions on these exams! If they pass this exam, or similar private exam, award them an official high school diploma from their local government owned and run socialist-entitlement K-12 school.
2) Encourage employers to use SAT and ACT scores as measures of a young adult's capacity to learn the job. (Honestly, why does the event's planner at the local Marriott need a bachelors degree? )Most of the work done in the U.S.A. does not specifically need a university level education, and most of the career skills learned is through on the job training.
3) Encourage certifiable qualifying exams. If my son can take a rigorous and **certifiable** Certified Public Accountant licensing exam at a local testing center, then why can't these centers give certifiable tests in Algebra, Calculus, 7th grade social studies, or 1st grade phonics? Bright children and their parents would be more likely to seek education on-line. If a child passes a specific level in a specific subject he should be immediately moved to the next level in his government socialist entitlement school. ( Cost to the taxpayer: NOTHING!)
All of the above suggestions would allow bright children to move through their education more quickly, thereby saving the taxpayer millions. Fewer teachers would be needed. The prison-like government schools could be consolidated and some completely closed due to lower enrollment. School taxes could be reduced and the money saved in would then be invested in areas of the economy that would produce jobs, wealth, health, and community infrastructure for the citizens to enjoy.
These suggestions, that would cost **NOTHING** to the taxpayer, would provide employers the information that they need to affirm that the applicant was sufficiently literate, numerate, and intelligent enough to do the job.
Young people would be able to start their careers years earlier, and earn tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars more over a lifetime. ( That alone would boost the economy.) They would be in less debt and able to start families and buy homes years sooner. Not only would this improve the economy, it would improve the culture. Having hairy adult Peter Pans, unmarried, and unsettled into their late twenties and early thirties is NOT good for them or our nation.
Finally...Regarding the GED or similar private exam:
Having an official high school diploma removes the stigma of the GED, and makes entry into the military and obtaining post high school scholarships far more straight forward. The age restrictions on taking this exam should be immediately removed.
-—1) Open up the GED to any child of **any** age. Remove all age restrictions on these exams! If they pass this exam, or similar private exam, award them an official high school diploma from their local government owned and run socialist-entitlement K-12 school.-—
They could prorate the cost of education based on student age and give the kid a percentage of the savings for opting out sooner.
The political elite are not looking for solutions. But thanks for playing.
They could use the money for two things:
1) Downpayment on a home.
2) Post high school training ( preferably not at a university).
3) Startup money for a business
The political elite are not looking for solutions. But thanks for playing.
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Very cute! ( Sitting here chuckling!)
:-)
Just because the political elite have never EVER found solutions and have only made matters worse in everything that they do doesn't mean that they are not looking for solutions. ~ ; )
First end all teachers unions - period - no exceptions.
Start reforms.
“Encourage employers to use SAT and ACT scores as measures of a young adult’s capacity to learn the job”
This would not replace one of the major reasons employers want a college graduate. It shows them a certain level of responsibility demonstrated over an extended period. IIRC, economists refer to this as ‘signalling’.
It ain’t about education......it’s about control...and a 100-200 grand payoff- or up to 500 grand total if professional grad school is involved.
It’s control.
What you are suggesting is nothing new. We actually did it at a time in our not so distant history when this country was still sane and the educrat unions didn't have a stranglehold on the industry.
Great idea, but the SAT doesn’t measure the student’s ability to get up on time, go to a place of work on a schedule (school/business), tolerate cranky people (teachers/co-workers), turn in homework, get along with others. In short, the SAT, an excellent measure of intelligence and knowledge at a point in time, doesn’t measure other aspects that are often required for work.
Question: if a certain element of society could NOT EVER pass the SAT test, would they remain in school forever? This SAT approach, perhaps supplemented with subject tests, would be great for many, but not all, students.
Your idea would be welcomed by millions of the 50 million students (US Dept of Education) who are trapped in dangerous urban s*** holes called (public) schools. Please, on a periodical basis, give the test to the teachers also.
First end all teachers unions - period - no exceptions.
Start reforms.
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I certainly agree with you, and I support every effort to attack the teachers unions directly...but...
For every 20 students who leaves the system early that means one less government teacher, one less union due payment, one less government leech sucking the blood of the American citizen. This is another way to get rid of the unions.
High SAT and ACT scores also demonstrate responsibility and self discipline over an extended period.
Yep! I agree! The government teachers in our godless socialist schools should be required to take the GED every 4 years ( at their expense). Most would fail the math portion. And...The SAT, ACT, and GRE scores of all government teachers should be posted ON-LINE!
Question: if a certain element of society could NOT EVER pass the SAT test, would they remain in school forever? This SAT approach, perhaps supplemented with subject tests, would be great for many, but not all, students.
Passing the GED should be required for all official high school diplomas. Those who attend until their 18th birthday, who did not pass, would be given a certificate of attendance.
As for the SAT and ACT one does not pass or fail these exams. Anyone can take them and they are awarded a score. It would be the employer who would determine what level of performance would be the minimum needed ( in terms of literacy and numeracy) for success on the job.
Great idea, but the SAT doesn’t measure the student’s ability to get up on time, go to a place of work on a schedule (school/business), tolerate cranky people (teachers/co-workers), turn in homework, get along with others. In short, the SAT, an excellent measure of intelligence and knowledge at a point in time, doesn’t measure other aspects that are often required for work.
I bet there is a correlation between high SAT scores and self-discipline.
Exactly...my employer hires many people with various non related degrees..they know if you finished the four year program you show resolve and ambition for starters.
These are great ideas and I agree with them all. The nut to crack will be getting the embedded educational bureaucracy to agree. Unfortunately, that’s a stone wall.
I would point out that this all starts in the home. ‘nuff said.
Homeschoolers are again re-inventing the wheel! Homeschoolers are eagerly sought by the leading universities and are entering at early ages and graduating **years** ahead of their contemporaries.
My 3 homeschoolers entered college at the ages of 13, 12, and 13. All finished all general college requirements and Calculus III by the age of 15. Two earned B.S. degrees in mathematics by the age of 18. The oldest attended college/university part-time and pursued other very enriching avocations.
Uuumm no. I know some gifted people who aced both those test, never studied in HS and are lazy slackers with zero ambition.
If you spend no money, you have no money to skim off.
There used to be a position called, “Office Boy”.
Perhaps this position, combined with high SAT or ACT scores might resolve this issue regarding reliability, self motivation, drive, and aptitude for the job.
Well...There are always outliers. I know complete slackers and bums who have college degrees. Some even have more than one degree.
Very impressive. Congratulations to you and your homeschoolers!
Thank you. They are hard workers.
Perhaps if they had been released from their kiddie prison ( mis-named “public” school), and worked at a real job creating real and meaningful wealth and health for people to enjoy, they might have turned out differently. Their lives would have had real purpose and direction.
Another money saver would be to let students drop out who don’t want to be in school and will never pass general requirements if they stay until they are 100 years old. The idea of forcing them to stay in the building until they are of a certain age is ridiculous. They are discipline problems that cause distractions for other students and cost the same as those who want to learn. Let them go find a real job if they can. Those who can’t would just wind up on welfare a few years earlier (unless they are already on welfare).
Absolutely!
Of course, as a libertarian I think all compulsory schooling laws should be abolished, but I don't see that happening soon.
Hm?...If this were so, why then are employers demanding INTERNSHIP experience?
Could it be that a college degree is NOT a reliable measure of resolve and ambition? Is this why INTERNSHIPS are now becoming almost mandatory?
The SAT and ACT as measures of intelligence and responsibility? That’s a horrible idea.
For example, I NEVER studied in HS (graduated with a 4.32 gpa and top 10% of my class), never once studied for the SAT (made 910 in 7th grade and 1280 senior year without once cracking a book.) Could I have made higher if I studied? Yes. I could have cracked 1400-1500 but at that point in time I didn’t give a crap. Yet, I still scored higher than the vast majority of students.
And the number 1 problem with this idea? The theory of incentives. You’re giving an incentive to dumb down the tests which they can and will do if our current education system is used as a comparison.
If anything, model our tests after the tests in Asian countries. That’ll open some eyes.
(1) That test is racist because minorities tend to score lower.
(2) Those tests are racist because minorities tend to score lower.
(3) Those tests are racist because minorities tend to score lower.
Any other ideas?
Fundamentaly, all of our godless government owned and run socialist-entitlmen K-12 schools should be shut down for many reasons. These suggestions would help reduce the number of children attending these schools and, for some children, shorten the time spent in them.
These suggestions would also reduce the number of young adults attending the Marxist indoctrination camps ( mis-named “universities”), reduce their debt, reduce taxes, and increase their lifetime earnings.
( Oh my! ..Is chuckling rascist?)
The co. I work for has been doing a lot of internships but I think it is a way for them to get workers for no pay and no benefits as the primary reason.
“Great idea, but the SAT doesn’t measure the student’s ability to get up on time, go to a place of work on a schedule (school/business), tolerate cranky people (teachers/co-workers), turn in homework, get along with others. In short, the SAT, an excellent measure of intelligence and knowledge at a point in time, doesn’t measure other aspects that are often required for work.”
That’s what ENTRY-LEVEL jobs do. Most high schoolers don’t get hired based on SATs, GEDs, or other exams - they get hired if they get their name right on the application and there’s enough left of their face left (after piercings) to recognize them as humanoid (although not always).
If they can do what you say as McDonald’s, then they’ll probably so the same at an accounting job.
Thanks for the ping, Wintertime.
The 150+ year government indoctrination experiment masquerading as “education” is being exposed.
It is more than just a failed education paradigm. In fact, it has been moderately successful at creating an ignorant, Godless, proletariat with little moral compass, seeking only to gratify their petty lusts, as promoted and encouraged by the government indoctrination system.
It amazes me that almost 50% of the electorate still maintains any semblance of understanding of free market economics, any desire for individual liberty, or any knowledge of history.
Two decades ago, a younger relative realized in his senior year in High School that he didn’t want to go to college.
He tried to get into the GED program, and the school didn’t want to lose the daily $’s for him coming to school.
So he stopped going to school, and he got a good asst principal who lined him up to get into the GED program. He finished in about 6 weeks and scored very high on the test.
Later he went to a trade school where he learned how to work for a living in a specific trade.
He parlayed that experience into another industry and is making good money. Two of his cousins took a similiar route and are well paid “blue collar” guys.
Several o their cousins spent years at college getting instant unemployment degrees and are living at home with their parents or older siblings being waiters or something that doesn’t require a degree. They owe anywhere from a 100k to 250K in student loans for their instant unemployment degrees. Some have masters in instant unemployment.
Use the GED and trade schools and bust the teacher unions and their tax sucking grips on America.
Excellent point! SAT and ACT scores do NOT provide an employer with enough information. It appears to me that college isn’t either. Could this be why employers are now demanding that applicants have **internship** experience on their resumes?
Could it be that college degrees and SAT and ACT scores are not entirely reliable in proving an applicant’s resolve, aptitude for the job, social skills, and reliability?
Question: So?...Why can’t internships be made available to those with high SAT scores who have not attended college? Does the employer need to pay the person for his internship? I know young people who are actually paying out of their own pocket for internship opportunities.
SAT and ACT scores are highly correlated to a person’s raw intelligence, and they **do** prove a persons level of literacy and numeracy. Couple this with an **internship** and perhaps we have a way for many young people to skip college completely.
This is the beauty of Free Republic. Ideas can be refined. You do have a good point.
I like your suggestions
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Here’s my modest proposal for education reform.
We have been discussing ways to fast track kids through high school to avoid the liberal agenda and other idiocies:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1315730/posts?page=84#84
Proposal for the Free Republic High School Diploma.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1316882/posts
To All:
BobL makes a good point, too.
A good work record and a good recommendation from an employer, such as Mc Donalds, should be enough ( along with SAT and ACT scores) to show an employer if a person has a good chance of succeeding on the job.
And...As trailhkr1 points out, employers can get free labor, and an excellent opportunity to screen the applicant, through internships.
“Question: So?...Why can’t internships be made available to those with high SAT scores who have not attended college?
This is the beauty of Free Republic. Ideas can be refined. You do have a good point.”
Yea, I caught that too. People think that you’re excluding the working parts of the existing system (i.e., internships). You can certainly have that, in addition to scores, being used when considering someone for a ‘permanent’ position.
A college degree doesn't do that nowadays, either.
When I went to university 30 years ago, I had to sacrifice, struggle, and work myself to exhaustion in order to get an undergraduate degree, and then redoubled my efforts for grad school. But speaking as the mother of a young woman whom just finished working her way through school, I can tell you that a college degree signals NONE of those things any longer.
Don't get me wrong, my daughter is very bright and she works fanatically hard at any job she undertakes. Her bosses and professors always love her. But she was surrounded by classmates who drank, screwed, and partied their way through school. It was four years of sex and vomit. But they got degrees, too. To those kids, a degree meant postponing adulthood for four years.
Liberals don’t like tests. Liberals (leftists) claim that using test scores is racist.
The Obama dept of education wants to eliminate testing and substitute apprenticeships for the last two years of education and base all union promotions on seniority, not testing. This would give the “disadvantaged” students who took the apprenticeships rather than the last two years of high school, above the high school graduate in seniority.
So, instead of someone applying for police academy after taking a two year community college course in criminology, we would have former gang bangers graduating from high school with a two year apprenticeship and completed police academy requirements. No testing.
What percentage of those young people really wanted to be in college, but were only going through the motions because a degree is the first step toward a job?
How many of those vomiting students would have been happier, more productive, more settled, married with a home and family, and **healthier*** if they had had an opportunity for a **real** job at the age of 15, 18, or 20 and skipped college completely!
I bet if employers moved toward certifiable qualifying exams, SAT scores, and internships ( instead of the vomiting college degree) the rate of genital herpes infections would go way DOWN!
Honestly, it is hard sometimes to differentiate between satire and the real thing. :-)
“If they can do what you say as McDonald’s, then they’ll probably so the same at an accounting job.”
And if they can PROOFREAD better than me, their future is even brighter.
Yeah, you would hope that Obama’s education plan was satire, but it is the real thing. Several states have already moved to make 12 grade optional, and I think that there is at least one state that has made both 11th and 12th grade optional.
It’s racist, you know, to require a disadvantaged student to remain in class and complete the same graduation requirements as the children of White capitalists.
Jobs are becoming more complex so higher education after HS is needed whether that be a 2 year technical degree or a 4 year college degree.
For instance, it's near mandatory today for auto mechanics to have some sort of post HS technical degree to learn to work on cars due to their complexity. Jobs are fast paced and lot's of competition between co's and an employer does not want to train employees today..if they do they are already not as competitive as their competition.
My local electrical utility co now requires a 2 year electronics degree for any employment within the co because employees do a myriad of jobs within the co..not just one position.
This is no longer the 50's where jobs were way less complex/technical and you could start at the bottom and work your way up. Employees are expensive and a employer wants you to know the basics in your field before he or she hires you. He does not want to train you for the 1st 1-2 years.
Parents who tell their children they don't need at least a 2 year technical degree and just to go out and get a job are in a nutshell short changing their children and are doing them a major disservice in life. Today a very small percentage of people become successful without some sort of post HS education.
1.) In each school, and in each school district, eliminate one administrative position (and by administrative I do not mean support staff). At the state level, eliminate five administrative positions. Use the money thus saved to increase teacher salaries, hire additional teachers, and purchase needed classroom supplies.
2.) If, at the end of the year, student achievement has not improved significantly (as measured by standard tests, chosen at random to eliminate "teaching to the test"), repeat the process.
In very short order the administrators will figure out how to improve education in order to save their phoney-baloney jobs.
“Jobs are becoming more complex so higher education after HS is needed whether that be a 2 year technical degree or a 4 year college degree...For instance, it’s near mandatory today for auto mechanics to have some sort of post HS technical degree to learn to work on cars due to their complexity.”
Having turned a wrench or two the past few decades, I think that I can say that while cars may be more complex than 40 years ago, they are also much easier to work on - since they now tell you where the problem is, thanks to their electronics. In the past, if an engine ran rough, you’d have to work down a rather extended list of possibilities, now the computer takes care of most of them and many of the reasons for a rough ride are gone or are detectable through the computer (points, ignition wires, coils, carburetors, timing, etc.). What’s left are things like low compression, low fuel pressure (maybe), and wheel balancing.
But you do have to know how to read now, to be able to understand a trouble code and then how to fix the device causing the trouble. The difference is that 40 years ago, kids could read when they finished high school - now they can’t - so the 2 year degree gets them quite a bit closer to the capabilities of high school graduates back then.
1) You are correct, regarding today’s culture and work environment. Personally, all of my four children have a minimum of a B.S. degree. Two have masters degrees.
2) You are correct. Post high school level training is needed for technical jobs. Some of those technical specialties such as engineering, physical therapy, medicine, pharmacy etc. are likely best acquired in a university setting.
My argument is that for many jobs in the United States a college degree is not needed and for those jobs we should encourage employers to move toward certifiable qualifying exams, SAT and ACT scores, and internships. For example, why require a college degree for the events planner at the local Marriott?
Certifiable qualifying exams for all subjects starting in first grade would do two things:
—move the bright students through the system faster allowing the student to begin his career soon
— save taxpayers BILLIONS.
Regarding the GED:
Allow any student of **any** age to take the GED or similar exam and award them an official high school diploma. Any student who couldn’t pass the GED by age 19 should be given a certificate of attendance. An official high school diploma by way of the GED would allow the student to begin their careers years earlier ( making **thousands** for the student) and also saving the taxpayers BILLIONS!
Also ( unrelated to the topic) all government socialist-entitlement school teachers should be required to take the GED every 4 years. ( Most would fail the math section.) And...All SAT and ACT scores of all government socialist-entitlement school teachers should be posted ON-LINE for all to see!
. Use the money thus saved to increase teacher salaries, hire additional teachers, and purchase needed classroom supplies.
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Heaven’s NO!
This is feeding money to the godless socialist-entitlement school beast!
The idea is to get as many kids OUT of the maw of Marxist indoctrination machine and into their careers doing real work, making real money, and creating real health and wealth for all to enjoy.
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