Posted on 06/19/2007 11:03:02 PM PDT by Quix
BTW,
Thanks for helping with about
1,750 views and counting.
“If aliens are real answer me these questions three
1. Why don’t they just contact us via TV or other forms of communication.”
Perhaps their intentions have nothing to do with communication, or perhaps their agenda does not include mass communication. Just because *you* might choose such methods or expect such an agenda, doesn’t mean that’s how someone else will operate.
“2. Why not just land and meet with us face to face?”
The answer from the previous question applies, but besides that, there are at least rumors that they have conducted face-to-face meetings. Just not with you.
“3. Why travel light years across the galaxy to enter our atmosphere, do a fly over and leave?”
Suppose they do more than that, and also suppose they didn’t leave. And light years may mean nothing to them at their technology level. After all, we simple humans are already working on Faster-than-Light physics ourselves, so a civilization only a little older than us may have the technology as a matter of course.
I heard George Noory say that this revelation would finally mean the question of gov’t coverup was over. I then immediately fell asleep and missed that part of the show, but apparently the release of the secret gov’t files hasn’t provided the revelation some expected. There does not appear to be much to release.
But they came all this way only to crash in the Nevada desert. That's a shame.
Errr... New Mexico...
I get my alien conspiracies mixed up... I need that flow chart.
It’s possibly interesting that they have advanced tech but poor driving skills—crash a lot. They might be us coming back from the future.
Thanks for helping with about
1,750 views and counting.'
Yeah no problem, people are funny the way they like to stop and look at car accidents and train wrecks.
The affidavit was generated in 2002, if genuine. I met Lt. Haut in early 2003, and he seemed in fine health then, and I think he only died last year.
This was not a “deathbed” affidavit.
I am not as colorful on this subject as Quix is, but I share his sentiment: the debunkery kneejerk is as reflexive as always.
I have no doubt there is a real affidavit.
You want an affidavit? I can get you an affidavit. :~)
I only get to listen to the show once in a blue moon, like when I’m driving reeeeeallllly late at night. The files in question are probably VERY dry reading, and most likely redacted in many instances. If there is real data in there, it will require an intellectual chisel to pry it out.
“But they came all this way only to crash in the Nevada desert. That’s a shame.”
Truly a shame, yes. But it the technology is real, then it is fallible. If it is controlled by an intelligence, then the fallibilty only increases.
That’s fine. But keep it.
Thanks for the ping!
You’ve probably already seen this but if not go to Above Top Secret.com and look at the Chriss Angel video. He levitates, which is a pretty spectacular trick but what is really interesting is you can see a UFO in the sky in a few of the shots as well as contrails.
Yeah, I conjectured wrong about death bed being close to the time of the affidavit.
Here’s another interesting bit from:
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2007/jun/m19-009.shtml
‘Witness To Roswell’ Book Review & Details
From: David Rudiak
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 23:27:46 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 11:13:46 -0400
Subject: ‘Witness To Roswell’ Book Review & Details
Review Of Carey & Schmitt’s Witness To Roswell
Tom Carey and Donald Schmitt’s new book, Witness To Roswell
just came out, which I just received from Amazon.com.
As the name attests, the book focuses on witness testimony, and
Carey and Schmitt have a slew of new witnesses to report,
including a few first-hand accounts of seeing the alien bodies.
There are also a ton of second-hand alien body stories, plus a
few to seeing the spacecraft either out at the crash site or in
the Hangar 84/P-3 at the base.
The hangar is the focus of many of the accounts, seemingly being
the centralized collection point for the debris, craft, and
bodies for further processing and transport out of the base.
The number of reports on alien bodies was surprising to me,
including several of a live alien. I had no idea there was so
much testimony along these lines.
The prize witness is Walter Haut, as most of us know, the
Roswell base public information officer, who put out Colonel
Blanchard’s recovered flying disc press release on July 8, 1947.
Haut in 2002 filled out a notarized affidavit, to be sealed
until after his death. Here the affidavit is revealed in full.
Haut, as he first did in an oral history with Wendy Connors and
Dennis Balthaser in 2000, reveals seeing the crash object and
several small bodies with big heads at Hangar 84, being taken
there by Col. Blanchard. This was on Tuesday, July 8 in the
afternoon, after the press release had hit the wires.
Haut also reveals first hearing about the Brazel debris field
and another crash location 40 miles to the north, where the main
craft and bodies were, on Monday afternoon, July 7, after
returning to the base from home after the 4th of July weekend.
The northern site had just been found by civilians and rumors of
the two sites were beginning to break out in town and on the
base.
The following morning at 7:30, Haut attended the senior staff
morning meeting where everybody was briefed as to what was
happening. Marcel and Cavitt described their findings at the
Brazel debris field and Blanchard filled in everybody on the
second crash site.
Haut also states Gen. Ramey and Col. Dubose were there, meaning
they had flown in from Fort Worth.
Debris was passed around for everybody to handle and nobody
could identify it. Much of the meeting was devoted to discussing
how to handle the situation and what the public should be told.
Here Haut discusses some of the rationale behind the issuing of
the puzzling press release. According to Haut, it was Gen.
Ramey’s idea to divert public attention away from the closer and
more important craft/body site. Haut felt Ramey was just
carrying out orders from the Pentagon.
Haut also states he went out to at least one of the sites and
brought back some debris of his own. He was aware of two teams
that went out for months afterwards to try to uncover any
physical evidence that might have been left behind. Although he
doesn’t say it, Haut is here providing some corroboration for
various tales of debris confiscation afterwards, such as told by
Bill Brazel Jr.
Haut’s affidavit plus other testimony below revives the crash
site 40 miles of north of Roswell where the main craft and
bodies were found.
Haut also presents a new timeline of the discovery of the site
on July 7, which means recovery began at this site at the same
time Marcel and Cavitt were out at the Brazel debris field
investigating it.
Another prize eyewitness is Sgt. Frederick Benthal. He was F.B.
in Crash At Corona, but here he is identified publicly for the
first time (or to me anyway). Benthal was the Army photographer
flown in from Washington, taken out to the body site, and who
photographed the alien bodies in a tent, with everybody else
cleared out.
Corroborating this was a first/second-hand account from an MP at
the site, PFC Ed Sain. He stated he was taken out to the site in
one of the ambulances and ordered to shoot anybody who tried to
enter a particular tent. His son said his father didn’t like to
talk about it, but had told him he had guarded the bodies in the
tent until they were transported to the base.
Sain indicated that another MP, Cpl. Raymond Van Why, had gone
out with him to the site. Van Why’s widow, Leola, said her
husband first talked about it in 1954 when he got out of the
service. He told her that he had been a guard at a crash site
and had seen the round spacecraft.
Sgt. Homer Rowlette was with the 603rd Air Engineering Squadron.
His son Larry and daughter Carlene Green said he told them about
it on his deathbed in March 1988. He was part of the cleanup
detail sent to the impact site north of Roswell. He handled the
infamous “memory foil” described by many others. He described
the ship as “somewhat circular” and said he had seen “three
little people” with large heads. At least one was alive (just
one of the ‘live alien’ stories).
PFC Rolland Menagh was another MP at the site, according to sons
Michael and Rolland Jr. He described the ship as egg-shaped and
seamless. Michael recalled him describing three dead bodies. His
father said they loaded the ship onto an 18-wheeler and covered
it with a tarp. He escorted it in a jeep as they drove it
through the center of town to the base and deposited it in a
hangar.
This brings us back to Roswell base.
S. Sgt. Earl Fulford saw his close friend, S. Sgt. George Houck,
drive off at 5:00 a.m. July 8 in a low-boy truck, which he
presumed was to pick up some wreckage, one of his standard
duties.
Fulford was an aircraft mechanic who often worked at Hangar 84.
During the day civilian mechanics from town kept questioning him
about the rumored spaceship with little spacemen. At 4:00 p.m.
as he left duty, Fulford saw Houck returning towing a lowboy
trailer and carrying a tarped object about the size and shape of
a VW Beetle. Houck refused to tell him what was under the tarp,
saying he had been ordered not to say. When Fulford tried to get
him to talk in the present-day, Houck still refused to talk
about it.
There was even more to Fulford’s story. The next day he said he
was “volunteered” to be part of a work detail of 15-20 men taken
out to what we call the Brazel debris field to finish cleaning
it up. They were given burlap bags and ordered to pick up
anything “not natural”.
He described an area hundreds of yards in extent and, like other
witnesses, said it was ringed with MPs. He said it had obviously
been cleaned up before, because there wasn’t much left, and he
could see tire tracks from big trucks that had been there
hauling things away. He said he found only 7 pieces, and
described picking up and handling, like so many other witnesses,
the “memory foil” that returned to its original shape.
When he got back to the base, he was awakened at 2:00 a.m. the
next morning and ordered out to Hangar P-3. He was also a
forklift operator and was ordered to load a wooden crate, 7 feet
square, into an idling C-54. It handled as if whatever was
inside weighed very little.
Back at Roswell base, everything centers on Hangar 84/P-3.
Another eyewitness MP, PFC Elias Benjamin, described being
ordered to pick up his gun and go out to Hangar P-3 for guard
duty on the morning of July 8. He noticed unusually heavy
activity around base headquarters.
When he got to the hangar, the officer who had ordered him there
was being subdued by MPs. He later found out he had been to the
crash site, but when he saw the bodies at the hangar he had
flipped out.
Benjamin said he was placed in charge of escorting 3 or 4 bodies
covered with sheets to the base hospital. One of them appeared
to be moving. One of the sheets slipped and he saw a grayish
face and large hairless head of something that wasn’t human.
When he got to the hospital and the sheets were removed, he got
a much better view of one of the bodies and gave a familiar
description of small body, large egg-shaped head, slanted eyes,
slit mouth, and two holes for a nose. He thought it was alive
and saw the doctors working on it.
Afterwards, he was debriefed, forced to sign a non-disclosure
statement, and told if he ever talked about it very bad things
would happen to him and his family. He still feared he would
lose his pension. His wife, who encouraged him to go public,
said he first told her the story in 1949 when they were married.
At the hospital, Miriam ‘Andrea’ Bush, 27, was a secretary to
the hospital administrator Lt. Col. Harold Warne.
According to her brother George and sister Jean, she came home
one night in a state of total shock. Finally she said that there
were a lot of strange medical personnel at the hospital she
didn’t recognize.
Later Warne would take her to an examination room and she saw
several small childlike bodies. One was moving. (Another live
alien story) Their skin was greyish to brown and they were
covered in something like white linens. Their heads and eyes
were large.
The next day she came home and said nobody was ever to say
anything further about it. The family thought she had been very
heavily threatened. They said the event so traumatized her that
it ruined her life.
She died under suspicious circumstances in 1989, with bruises
covering her arms, but ruled a suicide by suffocating herself
with plastic bag tied round her head.
It is conceivable that mortician Glenn Dennis’ “Nurse X” is
based in part on Miriam Bush, who would have been about the
right age and physical description.
There are several more MPs described guarding the hangar, to go
along with some previous accounts, such as from Sgt. Melvin
Brown. Pvt. Francis Cassidy told his wife, Sarah Mounce, of
seeing the bodies inside. Wanda Lida said her husband, Cpl.
Robert J. Lida, said he guarded the hangar and observed wreckage
and small bodies inside being prepared for shipment.
Several more witnesses to the heavily guarded B-29 crate flight
from Roswell to Fort Worth are provided.
We already knew about Robert Slusher and ‘Tim’, here publicly
identified as Lloyd Thompson.
One, S. Sgt. Arthur Osepchook, like the other men, was sure
something very important was inside the crate. One interesting
statement of his is that when they got back to Roswell they were
debriefed and told there were no such things as flying saucers
and that a crash of one didn’t happen.
Two MPs described how they had guarded the plane as it was being
loaded over the bomb pit. One described how the pit was wrapped
with a double layer of fabric to prevent anyone from seeing in.
He had to patrol blind between the inner and outer layer of
cloth.
Perhaps the most interesting new B-29 flight account came from
Blanche Wahnee, daughter of Capt. Meyers Wahnee. She said her
father told the family that the Roswell Incident was true in the
last year of his life.
A high-level security officer, he was flown in from Fort Simmons
in Colorado to Roswell to oversee the transport of a “Top Secret
item” from Roswell to Fort Worth on a special B-29 flight.
The item was a single, large, wooden crate that Wahnee was to
accompany as a security guard in the bomb bay. He said it
contained the alien bodies recovered near Roswell. As did a few
other witnesses in the book, he also said there were three
sites.
Three sites? Well of course the Brazel debris field, the
body/craft site north of Roswell described by Haut and other
witnesses, but what was the third site?
According to Carey and Schmitt, this was yet another body site
near the Brazel debris field. The evidence for this is thinner.
There is the Frank Joyce story of Brazel coming to town in a
highly stressed state and describing very smelly non-human bodies
to him in addition to the large debris field.
They also mention young Dee Proctor, who the Proctor family said
was with Brazel when he made his debris field discovery, but
also reported he had seen something else that had severely
traumatized him. He never said exactly what it was, but he took
his mother Loretta to the spot in the 1994 when he thought she
might be dying.
C & S say the story of the Brazel debris field had already
circulated widely in the Corona area and many ranchers and
rancher kids already knew about it before Brazel reported it.
One of these kids was Sydney ‘Jack’ Wright. He told them that he
and two other rancher children had gotten there too. They
finally got him to state that, “There were bodies small bodies
with big heads and eyes. And Mack was there too. We couldn’t get
away from there fast enough.”
Another perhaps related account came from the widow of Sgt.
LeRoy, another MP. She said he was called away one evening to
go to a crash site outside of Corona “to help load the bodies.”
When he returned home the next morning, he had a horrible stench
on his clothes. She burned the clothes, but the horrible smell
lingered on his body for another two weeks.
Carey and Schmitt feel that under the circumstances, Jesse
Marcel must have seen the bodies too when Brazel took them back
to the ranch and debris field.
They cite two witnesses who said Marcel did briefly mention
seeing the bodies, one a relative, Sue Marcel Methane, who said
he told her shortly before he died in 1986.
Another was Tech Sergeant Hershel Grice, a ground maintenance
crew chief, but who also was a member of Marcel’s intelligence
team. Grice described Marcel as a “straight arrow.” (Haut
described him to me this way also. Grice said Marcel described
the bodies as “white, rubbery figures.”
There are numerous other witness accounts presented in the book,
some already well-known in the Roswell literature, some new.
I’ve covered most of the major new ones here.
One of the more interesting remaining ones came from four sons
of Lt. Col. Marion M. Magruder, a legendary WWII Marine aviation
commander.
According to them, on his deathbed, he confessed to seeing crash
wreckage and a live alien at Wright Field two weeks after the
incident in mid-to-late July 1947.
He had just started Air War College at Maxwell Field,
Montgomery, Alabama, attended by elite high officers who the
various services considered to be the future military leaders.
They were flown up to Wright Field to get their opinion on an
urgent matter. They were then told about the recovery of an
extraterrestrial spaceship that had crashed near Roswell,
examined wreckage, and then were led to another room and shown a
surviving alien.
Mike Magruder said his father described the “creature” as under
5 feet tall, “human-like” but with longer arms, larger eyes,
and an oversized, hairless head. It had a slit for a mouth and
two holes but no appendages for a nose and ears - the standard
‘grey’ description. There was no question in his mind that it
“came from another planet.”
A number of other military witness accounts center around rumors
running rampant at the base of the flying saucer and bodies, of
something very big going on, a lot of security, severe warnings
to keep their mouths shut, and the base being in lockdown.
Some examples were other members of the 603rd Air Engineering
Squadron that witness Fulford was in.
PFC Eugene C. Helnes:
“It was definitely not a balloon. ...I know fellows who were out
at the site to clean it up. All the talk was of a crashed saucer
=97 right up to the time that I left the base in mid-1949.”
Sgt. Harvie L. Davis:
“Stories were going around, and I don’t doubt the people
involved. I believe that it was a UFO.”
John Bunch:
“Everything was hush-hush. We all knew something was
going on, but we didn’t know what. A lot of planes were coming
in and going out, and the airstrip was shut down for a period.
The base went into lockdown, and they checked us real close
going in and out.”
So there you have it, a whole bunch of witness stories to chew
over, including various live alien ones. The description of the
main crash object is different here, having changed from a heal-
shaped or bat-wing shape into an egg-shape from several
witnesses, and also appearing to be a little smaller than
previously described.
Haut, e.g., in his affidavit described it as about 15 feet long,
and Fulford described the tarped object on the truck as about
the size of a VW Beetle.
Alien body descriptions are impressive in their consistency:
large heads, large eyes, small bodies, slit for mouths, two
holes for nose and ears, usually greyish or brownish.
I am also very impressed with the consistency of the accounts as
they often neatly fit together into a cross-corroborating
narrative of what happened, which I’ve tried to indicate in the
presentation of the various witness accounts.
It is also hard not to be impressed with the shear numbers of
witnesses that have been compiled. Can all of them be lying?
Would a Mogul balloon cause this?
I have some quibbles about the organization and writing up of
some accounts in the book. Tables summarizing witnesses would
have been very useful. There are very large numbers of them to
keep track of and they are often scattered throughout the book.
However, in general this is a very impressive body of testimony
that Carey and Schmitt have collected and has given me a lot of
things to think about.
David Rudiak
Listen to ‘Strange Days... Indeed’ - The PodCast
See:
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/
I’m sure there’s more threads and twists than I can remember here...
= = =
Yup. Naysayers have been deemed unfitting receivers of the Golden Truths. So their minds have been altered—neutering selectively various memory functions. See Montauk. sp?
/s
Yup.
The powers that be find it fitting to keep naysayers ignorant. They are more fun to watch, that way.
/s
Looks like a Himalayan sp?
There’s still a number of folks who insist that they are us from the future.
I still contend that
Guy Malone is right . . . that they are fallen Watchers . . . bent on deceiving the planet in the Biblical GREAT DECEPTION of the END TIMES.
See post 86 for the affidavit . . . and post # 155
for the book reviewed.
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