Mel Gibson says his wife could be going to hell

MSNBC ^ | 02/10/04 | Jeannette Walls

[NotQuiteCricket]

Mel's father broke with the Church over Vatican II.

Mel believes, as does his father that there is no salvation other than through the church (see this link: http://www.catholic.com/library/Salvation_Outside_the_Church.asp ) Here is a relevant quote from the link: "Certain radical traditionalists, going to the other extreme, claim that unless one is a full-fledged, baptized member of the Catholic Church, one will be damned."

Thus - if his father has broken from the Church (because of Vatican II) how can he reconcile his views that all people outside of the Catholic Church be damned to hell with his and his father *not* going to hell?

[hope]

My husband and his family broke away from Catholicism years ago and they were taught that being catholic is imperative for salvation. But, I have Friends who say that the church has changed from that doctrine in some perishes.

[Maximilian]

Items 846 and 847 attempt to harmonize ancient and recent statements on salvation of non-Christians.

It's true that the Catechism "attempts" to harmonize these incompatible positions, but it cannot be done. The teaching of the Catholic faith is that which has been believed and taught "always and everywhere" by all the faithful of all time, not by one small group of Catholics for one short period of time. What has been always taught and believed by all Catholics is that you must enter the Catholic Church in order to be saved.

[CobaltBlue]

this whole "Non-Catholics go to hell" thing is Catholic dogma, and one of the reasons Luther broke away.

This statement makes zero sense. If all Christians are saved, why start another church? Why not stay in the original Church founded by Christ and try to improve it?

[twigs]

Excellent response! I am protestant; my husband is Catholic. We both tease each about this all the time, but both of us believe that if you believe the truth, you go to heaven. My husband struggles with it more than I, but he grew up hearing the nuns tell him his beloved Lutheran Grandmother was going to hell. He didn't believe it then and they paved the way for him to later marry a protestant.

[CWW]

I obviously will not be able to explain to you in a chat forum the foundation of the Mass the and joy and wonder present in the Eucharist. That takes time, and it is something that, in your case, you seem to have made up you mind based on one or two bad experiences. I sure am glad that I don't judge the efficacy of my Protestant brethern's faith based on a sampling of their services.

[CCWoody]

***Was Jesus a Catholic? ut oh.***

Does that mean that according to Gibson's Catholic theology, Jesus is currently burning in Hell? And, what about all those nice Apostles and Bishops of other churches not of Rome.

Perhaps the Pope gave special permission for the Lord to rise into heaven.

Woody.

[Maximilian]

While this may have been true historically

Either it's true or it's not true. It can't be true at one time, but be false at another time. I'm not surprised that your Catholic education was fudging the issue even before Vatican II. Fr. Feeney pointed out that this issue was the precursor to Vatican II.

[jtminton]

Maybe instead of getting mad and dismissing my post, you should think about how dangerous it is when a church starts relying on mortal man to make the rules instead of simply relying on the Bible.

[pctech]

Well I was raised a Catholic and my grandmother (Catholic) who married a Protestant was under the impression that her husband would not go to heaven. I found that very sad.

This doctrine is still central to the RC church, it's just not taught as such in the more modern RC church. If one looks closely at the catholic catechism, it's there.

[af_vet_1981]

the "God wants you to be rich" crowd. The one commandment I can keep ...

If you are poor how does that allow you to give significant help to others ? It is those who have much that can give much.

[CobaltBlue]

I was never taught that you must be Catholic to be saved.

Maybe not in so many words, but you have to attend Mass and participate in the Catholic sacraments in order to be saved. Baptism isn't baptism if it's not from a priest. Confession isn't confession if it's not from a priest. Absolution isn't absolution if it's not from a priest. Communion isn't communion if it's not from a priest. Marriage isn't marriage if it's not from a priest.

[pissant]

VaBthang4, I hate very few (Osama, terrorists, child molesters excluded). I do get a little peeved with anti-Catholic rhetoric (and respond reflexively). I do not judge a person by the Church he attends, but the content of their character. I have respect for all who seek God's forgiveness and appreciate the miracle He has given.

[twigs]

My husband went to Catholic school and had to listen to the nuns tell him constantly that his Lutheran grandmother was going to go to hell.

[brownsfan]

So what if Mel, or other Catholics believe I'm going to Hell? At least they will allow me to find my own way there, in my own good time. The Islamists are sure I'm going to Hell, and they want to start the trip today!

[EllaMinnow]

The fact that you put "Roman Catholic" in quotation marks tells me all I need to know.

[jtminton]

Non-denom evangelical. I learned more in one Sunday about the Bible then 25 years at the Baptist church.

Calvary Chapel Homepage

[Maximilian]

What about the "truth" that the Pope is infallible in matters of doctrine?

He is only infallible under certain very limited circumstances, and the main criterion is that he be teaching in conformity with the universal and ordinary magisterium of the Church which means "what has been taught always and everywhere by all the faithful." By definition, it can never be infallible if or when the pope teaches a novelty. For example, the Immaculate Conception was not a novelty. Catholics had always believed it. It was being celebrated as a feast day in Mexico when the Virgin appeared at Guadalupe, 350 years before the infallible pronouncement of the doctrine. But later it was defined by the pope as dogma.

That's been a mainstay of Roman Catholic doctrine for centuries, so either that "truth" has changed, or the "truth" about salvation only being available through the Roman Catholic Church has changed, or Pope John Paul II is a false Pope.

When a pope teaches in contradiction to centuries of Catholic doctrine, it is a source of grave scandal. That is why Mel Gibson practices the traditional Catholic faith, not the Vatican II version.

[pctech]

Around here we call that a cult

Oh boy, the lid has now come off Pandora's box!

[redhawk]

Mel's wrong on this Unam Sanctum the Church today doesn't promote the "Only Catholics Saved" postion. However, Mel is a member of a group that views the current Pope as an anti-Pope, perhaps this has something to do with it.