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George Zimmerman verdict: The jury speaks
The Orlando Sentinel ^ | July 20, 2017 | Hal Boedeker

Posted on 07/21/2017 8:35:14 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

Three jurors from the George Zimmerman trial are going on national television to defend their controversial verdict — one that sparked protests across the country — and legal analysts say they could perform a public service.

“People don’t understand you have to follow the law,” juror Madelin Rivera said in an interview. “They give directions to the jury, and you follow that.”

Rivera (known as juror B-29 during the trial), Amy Tronolone (D-40) and Christine Barry (B-51) appear in “The Jury Speaks: George Zimmerman” at 9 p.m. Monday on Oxygen. The series also talks to jurors in the trials of Michael Jackson, O.J. Simpson and Robert Durst.

The Zimmerman jurors’ names were made public in April 2014, but the Orlando Sentinel typically does not identify jury members unless they have agreed to be interviewed.

A Seminole County jury in 2013 acquitted Neighborhood Watch volunteer Zimmerman of murder in the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed, black 17-year-old. The not-guility verdict in Sanford helped spur the Black Lives Matter movement.

The issue for jurors came down to self-defense.....

(Excerpt) Read more at orlandosentinel.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Government; Politics
KEYWORDS: banglist; florida; georgezimmerman; trayvon; trayvonmartin; zimmerman
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To: LukeL

> I do believe that Zimmerman did exacerbate the situation and a charge of manslaughter or negligent homicide could have been argued for. <

A guy I know is a lawyer. And he’s passionate about the Second Amendment. Very passionate. He’s taken on cases on behalf of the NRA.

And he agrees with you.


21 posted on 07/21/2017 10:17:49 PM PDT by Leaning Right (I have already previewed or do not wish to preview this composition.)
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To: LukeL; All

Perhaps I should expand on my comments in post #21 a bit.

At a gathering, a lawyer acquaintance of mine was asked about the Zimmerman trial. This guy is very, very pro-2A. Life Member of the NRA.

And I know for a fact that he carries whenever it’s legal to do so.

He said Zimmerman should have been found guilty. I almost fell over when I heard him say that! But then he explained.

He said that by Florida law you can only use lethal force when it’s probable that you will be killed by your assailant, or be badly injured by your assailant.

The old “I was in fear for my life” will not work, at least for civilians. More than just fear is needed. There must be a likelihood of death, or of severe injury.

And the lawyer said that even though Zimmerman was injured, there was no probability of death, or severe injury.

Don’t yell at me over this. I’m not sure I buy everything that the lawyer said. I’m just the messenger here.


22 posted on 07/21/2017 10:37:49 PM PDT by Leaning Right (I have already previewed or do not wish to preview this composition.)
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To: Leaning Right

So you’re saying the victim, as he’s being beaten, must accurately determine the probability of death or bad injury, and that his fear of such, as he’s being beaten, doesn’t matter?

I think your lawyer friend is full of it. Feed him to the gators.


23 posted on 07/21/2017 10:50:05 PM PDT by Yardstick
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To: LukeL
. I do believe that Zimmerman did exacerbate the situation and a charge of manslaughter or negligent homicide could have been argued for.

Oh, really? Getting your head bashed in by some negro thug is not excuse enough to defend yourself? Self defense is not valid in your world?

24 posted on 07/21/2017 10:51:43 PM PDT by doorgunner69
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To: LukeL

I do believe that Zimmerman did exacerbate the situation and a charge of manslaughter or negligent homicide could have been argued for.




25 posted on 07/21/2017 10:51:59 PM PDT by 867V309 (Lock Her Up)
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To: Yardstick

> So you’re saying the victim, as he’s being beaten, must accurately determine the probability of death or bad injury, and that his fear of such, as he’s being beaten, doesn’t matter? <

That’s a great question. As he was being beaten, Zimmerman almost certainly felt that it was probable that he would be badly injured, or worse.

But the lawyer says it doesn’t matter what Zimmerman felt. What matters is that Zimmerman would probably NOT have been killed or maimed by Martin. Just beaten up.

So by Florida law, Zimmerman should have been found guilty of at least manslaughter. So said this NRA lawyer.

I’m uncomfortable with that, as you obviously are. But the lawyer was applying the law as he saw it. What I should have asked him is this: Do you agree with that law? Doesn’t it expect too much clarity from the citizen in a time of great stress?


26 posted on 07/21/2017 10:59:56 PM PDT by Leaning Right (I have already previewed or do not wish to preview this composition.)
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To: Leaning Right
And the lawyer said that even though Zimmerman was injured, there was no probability of death, or severe injury.

Did the lawyer (who has likely never faced a threat) bother to explain how Zimmerman, getting his head bashed in, would know all this minutiae?

27 posted on 07/21/2017 11:00:32 PM PDT by doorgunner69
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To: doorgunner69

Kindly check out posts #22 and #26.


28 posted on 07/21/2017 11:01:40 PM PDT by Leaning Right (I have already previewed or do not wish to preview this composition.)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

It’s semantics or not whether the ground can be considered a “weapon”, but it doesn’t matter. If someone is bashing your head into the ground, you have the right to defend yourself. The 5 year old picture of the baby faced kid they kept showing, from when he was like 12 years old, as though that was the person Zimmerman was confronting and “murdered” speaks volumes about media bias. You can be sure they never wanted to show the “No Limit N****” picture from his Twitter account that was taken shortly before the incident.


29 posted on 07/21/2017 11:09:10 PM PDT by Bones75
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To: Leaning Right
I’m just the messenger here.

And you are peddling BS. Ask your lawyer friend, how should Zimmerman have reacted, wait until his higher level brain functions were impaired then shoot? How would anyone have a clue where the boundary was from injury to death/brain damage?

I think your lawyer friend should meet up with a thug in an alley and reassess.

30 posted on 07/21/2017 11:09:29 PM PDT by doorgunner69
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To: Leaning Right
Florida law—and self-defense legal theory in general—is all about what a reasonable person would think under the same circumstances.

Zimmerman had every right to self defense under the conditions that occurred.

The only question that could garner him a manslaughter charge might have been some of the actions prior to the confrontation.

But, practically speaking, no. Zimmerman engaged in lawful self defense, and he shouldn't have been convicted of anything lesser, including manslaughter. There are centuries of legal precedence which establish the principle: Zimmerman was in legitimate fear for his life. End of story. Trayvon Martin, in initiating the assault—even if Martin somehow feared for his life—made a fatal error which resulted in his own death.

Ghetto culture killed Trayvon Martin. He assaulted Zimmerman basically because he felt "disrespected", and that's not a legitimate reason to initiate an assault.

Absent Trayvon Martin's testimony that he (Martin) was in fear for his life, the case hinged on Zimmerman's credibility, which was more that adequate...

31 posted on 07/21/2017 11:15:09 PM PDT by sargon ("If we were in the midst of a zombie apocalypse, the Left would protest for zombies' rights.")
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To: Leaning Right

At a gathering, a lawyer acquaintance of mine...

this guy shouldn't be disbarred, he should be committed.


32 posted on 07/21/2017 11:26:12 PM PDT by 867V309 (Lock Her Up)
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To: sargon

> Florida law—and self-defense legal theory in general—is all about what a reasonable person would think under the same circumstances. <

I certainly agree with that.

>There are centuries of legal precedence which establish the principle: Zimmerman was in legitimate fear for his life. <

But that’s the point the lawyer was trying to make: A fear is not good enough. There must be a probability of death of severe injury.

The lawyer did not see that probability as being present. A possibility, yes. But not a probability.

Side note:

I knew I was going to catch some (maybe well-deserved) flak for posting that lawyer’s opinion. But the guy is solid 2A, and he volunteers his time to defend folks against bogus gun charges. He could well be wrong here. But I think he has credentials enough that it’s worth the conversation.


33 posted on 07/21/2017 11:31:40 PM PDT by Leaning Right (I have already previewed or do not wish to preview this composition.)
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To: Leaning Right

the lawyer did not see that probability as being present. A possibility, yes. But not a probability.

so getting your head banged on the pavement only represents a possibility of severe injury?

I say again, your "lawyer friend" shouldn't be disbarred, he should be committed.


34 posted on 07/21/2017 11:41:10 PM PDT by 867V309 (Lock Her Up)
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To: doorgunner69

I said that one could have argued for manslaughter not that he committed manslaughter.


35 posted on 07/21/2017 11:48:01 PM PDT by LukeL
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To: LukeL

I said that one could have argued for manslaughter not that he committed manslaughter.

weasel talk.


36 posted on 07/21/2017 11:53:22 PM PDT by 867V309 (Lock Her Up)
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To: 867V309

> so getting your head banged on the pavement only represents a possibility of severe injury? <

That’s what the NRA lawyer said. And it does seem a bit off. Since that day I have often wondered about his explanation of the Zimmerman case. I think he was honestly trying to apply the law as he saw it.

But I now think he was also trying to give us some legal advice. If you are involved in a citizen shoot, be careful of your wording when you give your statement to the police.


37 posted on 07/21/2017 11:53:49 PM PDT by Leaning Right (I have already previewed or do not wish to preview this composition.)
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To: 867V309
Actually, the legal standard is "reasonable belief" (of an imminent threat of lethal harm), not "possible" or "probable".

(Also note: rape is always put in the category of lethal harm)

38 posted on 07/21/2017 11:58:31 PM PDT by Teacher317 (We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men)
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To: Leaning Right

That’s what the NRA lawyer said.

guess I missed my calling...


39 posted on 07/21/2017 11:58:57 PM PDT by 867V309 (Lock Her Up)
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To: 867V309
I am arguing from a legal standpoint. Was he in fear for his life? Yes. Did Martin iniate tje assault? Yes. The issue hangs on the question was Zimmerman in the right to go beyond being in the neighborhood watch by confronting a potential burglary in progress (Martin was trespassing at the time) instead of letting the police handle the situation. There are many instances where a well intended individual attempts to be a good Samaritan and makes a bad situation worse. A hotheaded person can turn what would have been a petty crime into a need for self defense.

It is sort of like the Charles Bronson, Death Wish situation. Can a person put himself into a dangerous situation and then use deadly force even for the public good.

40 posted on 07/22/2017 12:00:05 AM PDT by LukeL
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