Posted on 06/29/2016 5:39:58 AM PDT by MichCapCon
Lemme guess. HE AINT BLACK ENOUGH?
Not a new problem. My brother is a robotics engineer who went into high school teaching.
He had to take a bunch of remedial classes where he was interrupting the teacher to show her faster and easier ways to do things.
Insane
Probably need a degree in special weapons and marshal arts to effectively control a classroom in a typical Detroit school.
Yep. I have a degree in Computer Science. When my kuds were in school, teaching would have been a great option. However, I didn’t want to have to go through the hassle of getting certified (be g required to join a union was also bad).
Many states have had coursework requirements and test results for certification for decades.
Ironically, when several states started requiring teacher subject-matter tests, many teachers’ unions went ballistic. Too many ‘teachers’ failed the test(s), even though they were allowed to take them multiple times.
During times of teacher shortages, many school districts can get waivers to hire otherwise not-fully-qualified individuals in select subjects.
From hiring to qualifications to textbooks to job assignments to classroom content, the education system is wrought with ‘office politics’.
“” Over the years I have had friends with engineering, finance, accounting, etc, degrees who have had a desire to teach after retiring from the private sector. And, they have run up to this road block. Reguiring these Education Hours is just a means by which Teachers Unions use to protect their turf. Btw, there is no such requirement to teach at the college level.”
Snoringbear, how many of your friends in those vaulted careers has to give presentations and had to have team building and leadership skills in order to be successful at their craft? Hmmm, seems to me that’s what you need to be up in front of a classroom to get the bells and whistles to go off in those skulls full of mush. In a former career I was at the top of my game and at a career fair they had the Local HS looking for teachers and I asked about me teaching said skill, nope, 4 yr teaching degree needed, naturally I walked away.”
Taildragger, I was employed by a major electronics firm for 35 years. My degree is in Economics. My career was spent primarily as a manufacturing and supply chain manager. To answer your question about these people’s ability to give presentations, stand up in front of a group and give presentations, have interpersonal skills and so in; actually, in the private sector, after one has been employed after a relatively short period of time they are expected to make presentations, interface with customers, be involved as a member in cross functional teams, etc. so, it’s rare for any salaried person to retire after 20 ~ 40 years and not be able to teach at the high school level. It’s just a shame to exclude this large pool of folks with math and science skills from contributing, especially when so many high schools are having to staff these classes with people who are so lacking in math and science knowledge. Anyway, my two bits....
That might be the problem right there. Success is not necessarily the criteria you would be judged upon.
A high school teacher can teach math and science having never taken a single math or science class, and based on the experience of having tutored many kids in math and science, it is common. I would never be allowed to teach math or science, despite plenty of background and decades of engineering experience. Plus I keep sharp on math skills, to such an extent that I would be shocked if I were to take the SAT again and missed a single math question. But I imagine the special courses I must take instruct children, teach you how to not slap the snowflakes silly and how discipline should be meted inversely proportional to melanin content on a logrythmic scale
True teachers who understand what they are doing would disagree with you, as would DPS Interim Superintendent Alycia Meriweather as she states above. The intent is to protect the child from people who cannot bring about an excitement in learning. Sometimes even this screening process fails, but mostly not.
Btw, there is no such requirement to teach at the college level.
This is why the undergraduate level of obtaining a college degree is such a failure in this era.
Go figure......
I have, and have been subjected to the schooling process for enough years to recognize why some sort of mechanism needs to be used to sort teachers out from those who just want to put as few hours into the classroom as possible to take home a paycheck, truly interacting with their pupils as little as necessary.
Actually, knowledge of the subject being taught is almost irrelevant to the matter at hand, although it can be a great motivator. Teaching is the art of exciting a student to teach themselves, and the goal is to produce a self-starter rather than just another stem-winder. As the eminent John Milton Gregory states in his thin volume "The Seven Laws of Teaching" (Revised, 33rd printing since 1884, p. 84) in this nugget:
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". . . the explanation of the work of the teacher in terms of function is to be distinguished from the definition in terms of purpose. The actual work of the teacher consists of the awakening and setting in action the mind of the pupil, the arousing of his self-activities. As already shown, knowledge cannot be passed from mind to mind like objects from one receptacle to another, but must in every case be recognized and rethought and relived by the receiving mind. All explanation and exposition are useless except as they serve to excite and direct the pupil in his own thinking. If the pupil himself does not think, there are no results of the teaching; the words of the teacher are falling upon deaf ears.
We are now ready to state the law of teaching:
Excite and direct the self-activities of the pupil, and as a rule tell him nothing that he can learn himself."
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(Note: my emphases by bolding the text)
Can you not see why simple knowledge of the subject falls far short of getting the information and such excitement of possessing it across to the pupil to make him/her a disciple hanging on to every word?
That is what you are paying for in a school or college instructor, and not getting. And if you think that ones knowledge of a subject solely qualifies him to be a teacher of it, please don't even answer this comment.
We need to rewarding teachers for their "qualifications" and return them to the classroom by giving tenure only to those who produce proficiency in capable students.
I could tell horror stories for both sides of this issue. On one hand, I’ve sat in college education classes and been horrified... but I have also seen too many PHDs that couldn’t even file papers in the correct folders (by student name).
why do you need a bachelor’s degree to teach second grade math?
It’s called the “Teacher Protection Act” and for a very good reason. Most professionals with the academic expertise desperately needed in public schools (math, computer science, biology, chemistry, physics) don’t want to spend another two years in school to take a bunch of virtually-worthless “education” courses to gain their teaching credential.
And why should they? Many have their doctorates and have taught at the university level, so they are more than competent in classroom management, curriculum development and the other “skills” taught in education grad programs. So, when the retired scientists and engineers take a pass, those jobs must be filled by someone, i.e., the latest “grads” from the education schools.
Even Troops to Teachers, one of the most successful teaching transition programs in history, does its own bow and scrape to the education establishment. Exiting service members are given a temporary license, but must complete the academic and certification requirements for teaching in that state, which normally means two more years in school and earning a master’s in education. Toss in the horrible conditions that many teachers now face in the classroom and you learn why more retiring military and veterans decide against becoming a teacher.
Discipline is all-but-gone in most public schools. I come from a family of teachers; my two step sisters and a brother-in-law have almost a century of classroom experience. My older sister and her husband did 30 and 28 years and retired. Both tell the the “change” in schools from their first days in teaching (early 70s) and the end of their careers was absolutely stunning. They occasionally substitute but steadfastly refuse the district’s offer to sign a one-year contract AND collect their full pension, which is allowed under state law. Just not worth it, they tell me.
My younger sister is entering her final year at an elementary school in the Chicago suburbs. She is also counting the days until retirement.
You don't need the degree in tensor analysis. You need to (a) be able to teach reading, writing, basic history, health, manners, and music to (b) a group of attention-deficient children whose focus must be continually redirected to the issue at hand, without (c) violating any of the statutes regarding religion, morality, discipline, and state law regarding the children under your care, and (d) meeting the schedules and policies regarding the operation of the organization and physical building surrounding you, whilst (e) ordering and reordering classroom supplies before (f) the bell rings, ending the school day, and (g) having prepared an outline of what the next day's activities will be, before leaving.
Or something like that.
“Inside American Education” by Thomas Sowell. Education majors have among the lowest SAT scores. Teachers often have zero academic background in the subject they teach. Ed School devote a majority of their time to everything but actually teaching how to teach. In some states, teachers rebelled at having to pass the high school exit exam themselves—guess why? Add to this the fact that public school teachers once hired are rarely fired.
We had a very solid public school system at one point. Most of the female teachers in the old days would now be doctors, lawyers, etc. The most talented females do NOT go into teaching now. (The most talented males never did). Just my opinions, of course.
His problem is he did not take Ebonics. So he cannot communicate with the Detroit school system students.
He also cannot wash or braid or cut hair either without a several year course at additional cost.
What a wagon load of crap!
This has always bugged me - you have to have state certification to teach the ABC’s to preschoolers, but anyone can teach in college.
A master teacher says, "the explanation of the work of the teacher in terms of function is to be distinguished from the definition in terms of purpose," and that's crap?
My daughter-in-law homeschooled 10 grandchildren, and the oldest is now in second year of Ph. D. studies, invited to come there by Urabana. according to the abovetatement, I think she had her priorities straight, as did her son. Dr. Ben Carson's mother was a supreme teacher also, and she could not read.
Maybe your mindset needs to be realigned. Neither of these women would be useful in a different kind of system that required more training to accommodate all the variables.
Let me correct my careless error in leaving out a critical word in my last sentence of the comment to you. It should have read:
>> We need to cease rewarding teachers for their "qualifications" and return them to the classroom by giving tenure only to those who produce proficiency in capable students. <<
(I hope that carries across what I meant to say when it has the critical word inserted.)
“Actually, knowledge of the subject being taught is almost irrelevant to the matter at hand,”
Your comment above is beyond the pale of stupid. It’s the kind of thinking put forward by those incompetents who have no comprehension of math or science. Neither can be taught unless knowledgeable in the subject.
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