Posted on 05/23/2014 12:07:18 PM PDT by discipler
Water baptism is a testimony to God and the world the born again believer has called on the Lord and accepted him as Savior...It is also a good reminder for yourself when Satan tries to convince you that you aren't a Christian...
And what is the result of refusing to be baptized?
Well technically speaking it also means to reverse one’s self and go 180 degrees in the opposite direction though in real life it goes better for some of the faith at times than others
Well technically speaking it also means to reverse one’s self and go 180 degrees in the opposite direction though in real life it goes better for some of the faith at times than others
You can’t imagine that the spiritual promise, receiving the Holy Spirit, can be attached to the physical act of baptism.
The concept of a promise from God being attached to a physical act is very common through out the scripture. Paint blood on your door post (physical act) and the Spirit will pass over your house and not kill your first born (promise from God). Look at the bronze serpent on a pole (physical act) and you will not die from the snake bite (promise from God). Dip in the river Jordan 7 times (physical act) and you will be healed of leprosy by God (promise from God). I could go on and on. The point being that God’s promise tied to a physical act is not anything new from God, and the thought that the promise of the Holy Spirit can’t be tied to the physical act of being baptized in water (as commanded) is to ignore the promise it self ( “repent and be baptized (physical act)for the forgiveness of sin and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.(promise from God)”
You keep insisting that there are two different baptisms in the New Covenant. Paul clearly teaches that there is only one baptism. Ephesians 4:5 How can there be two as you advocate? The truth is that there is only one and it is done in water and that at that baptism the Holy Spirit is given as a promise from God and therefore we are immersed into an by the Spirit at that time.
1) Cornelius was an impressive man. With all that he had he did not have Christ. Note the angel told Cornelius to send for Peter and that Peter would tell him what he must do. Acts 10:6 Cornelius when meeting Peter re-accounts his conversation with the Angel and asks Peter to tell them all that God commands. Acts 10:33 Peter by his own words admits that he did not fully understand that the gentiles should be added to the fold. “who was I that I could withstand God?” Acts 11:17 The disciples in Jerusalem understood that Cornelius’s tongues of fire was a sign saying “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.” Acts 11:18 Peter also tells the Apostles in Jerusalem that what happed to Cornelius with the tongues of fire was the same thing that happened to the Apostles on the day of Pentecost. Specifically he had to go back to “as upon us at the beginning.” It was a sign from God that the gentiles should be added to the faithful. That is why Peter, once he got it, commanded baptism. Now there is only one baptism, and because there is only one baptism, Peter either confirms that baptism in water is a command of God or he is teaching error. Again you find me anyone that fits what happened to Cornelius and I will tell them the same thing Peter did. ‘You need to be baptized in water.’
2) Paul did say that he did not come to baptize. And as I pointed out earlier Paul did baptize and in fact he baptized in water the first people he taught. How do I know? By your own words you say that “Jesus baptizes us in the Holy Spirit” but here Paul clearly say he baptized. (There is only one baptism) Either Paul was in error at Corinth or he lied when he said there is only one baptism. Paul baptized them and they received the promised Holy Spirit and therefore were immersed into the Spirit.
Your comments on multiple types of salvation to go with multiple baptisms in regard to I Peter 3 makes no sense and no such doctrine is taught in the New Testament. As well, the comments you made in regard to “faith alone” also can not be found in the New Testament.
The truth is that God requires man to follow His commands. One must certainly believe. Without belief no one will continue down the path of commands from God. That is why Jesus said “he who believes not will be condemned” for a nonbeliever will never repent and be baptized. Only one that believes will change their life in repentance. But, make no mistake repentance is essential to salvation. (in spite of the fact that you said the only thing required is grace through faith) Repentance means that one is turning to God and turning away from the world. Repentance will lead us to life. That means that God’s will is supreme. What ever he wants we do. Christ is Lord and if we love Him we do what He says. (unless it is baptism for some and in those cases some call His will unnecessary /sarcasm) You see there is the break in the chain. “Why do you call Me Lord, Lord and do not the things I say.” Some are like a builder that builds on the sand. The foolish that hear what Jesus said and do not do them. (and teach other not to do them as well.) Matt 7 If you love Me you will keep My commandments.
“You keep insisting that there are two different baptisms in the New Covenant. Paul clearly teaches that there is only one baptism.”
The only baptism that washes you clean and gives you life and seals you to Christ is the baptism JESUS gives - the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, as Paul plainly teaches. Water baptism is a RITE that has some value, and we should do it, but it follows conversion.
Ephesians 4 says: “There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.” That is clearly referring to Baptism in the Spirit, and Paul is even more explicit here:
“For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.”
Hard to be called naked when you have clothes on, and hard to be called new when you have been around a while...
Sounds like you are proud you are not like other men.
God have mercy on me, a sinner.
The Eastern Orthodox baptize by immersion for remission of sin. Are they saved? If they are, why are not joining them?
The Mormons baptize by immersion for remission of sin. Are they saved? If not, why not!
Several other fringe groups also baptize for remission of sin. What about them?
***Paul clearly teaches that there is only one baptism.”***
So which is it?
The baptism of JOHN for remission of sin?
Mar 1:4
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
The Baptism of Jesus on the Cross?
Luk 12:50
But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
The baptism the Apostles were baptized with?
Mat 20:22
But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
There are a couple of other baptisms in which the KJV uses “washing”.
Mar 7:4
And when they come from the market, except they wash(sprinkle), they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing (baptisms) of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.
Now, Did they really baptize their tables every day? The Greek says they did.
I am not their judge and I do not have to be their judge. I am only accountable to God to teach what He has said. I am happy to leave the rest to Him.
The demons believe - and tremble. And yet you say one must believe. Are they saved?
The point being, (anyone with a modicum of skill in logic should know you have given a false dilemma), that none of us are judged by God in only one point. There no doubt have been millions of people baptized for the forgiveness of sin while they themselves never repented. They got wet! There are even people that teach baptism with out Christ. What a shame! Just as millions of people say they love Jesus and “call Him” Lord yet they do not do the things He says.
“I asked a Campbellite preacher if baptism by immersion was absolutely necessary.
He said YES!
I then said..”The Eastern Orthodox practice immersion baptism for the remission of sins, are they saved?”
His response was “NO! They weren’t baptized by a Church of Christ preacher!””
Again logic can be your friend. I met a Baptist preacher 2 weeks ago that said “I know some Muslim Christians”. Am I to paint all Baptist with this statement? Come to think of it Westbourgh Baptist church could be the pattern for all Baptist. / sarcasm
“So which is it?”
How about the one that the Peter guided by the Holy Spirit commanded? Or is it your contention that Peter lied?
I’ll take the word of the Apostle to the Gentiles.
Act 16:30
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Then consider the words of the Apostle to the Circumcision..
Act 15:8
And God, which KNOWETH THE HEARTS, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9
And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts BY FAITH.
Act 15:10
Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11
But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ WE shall be saved, EVEN AS THEY.
It’s quite obvious SALVATION comes before BAPTISM.
Baptism represents cleansing of sin. That was the Jewish ritual. It represented a 180 turn in your life. It was later described as “crucifying the old man”.
Baptism is a sign of Conversion.
Or should be.
Catholics baptized babies under a strange belief that baptism was like a magic spell that protected the human from going to Hell.
Strangely, Methodists believe you can Fall from Grace but refuse to baptize again.
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