Posted on 03/31/2013 2:45:14 PM PDT by grumpa
Did Jesus really rise from the dead? Here are four things that modern scholars, including skeptical scholars, almost universally agree on. (This is a very brief summary of the original):
1. Jesus died and was buried in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea.
2. A group of women found the tomb empty on Easter morning.
3. Over 500 people really and truly believed that they saw Jesus alive.
4. The Christian faith exploded to all the known world in a very short period of time thereafter.
The best explanation for these events is that Jesus really did rise from the dead. But here are 3 alternative explanations, and why each has been discredited.
a. The disciples stole Jesus' body. This theory has been universally rejected by critical scholars and survives only in the popular press. This theory is rejected for several reasons, not the least of which is that the disciples were all killed for their faith. People will allow themselves to be martyred for what they believe to be true, but will not die for a lie.
b. Jesus did not really die on the cross. This theory has been entirely abandoned by critical thinkers for medical facts about crucifixion.
c. The disciples hallucinated. This theory too has been rejected by scholars as psychologically impossible. Hallucinations are usually associated with mental illness or drugs. And while one person can hallucinate, a large group of people do not hallucinate together.
For the entire article from our website that offers the classical evidentiary apologetic on the resurrection, go to:
http://www.faithfacts.org/search-for-truth/contemporary-scholarship
Also see my Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/Faithfacts.org
Give us a "Like."
Read Acts. The road to Damascus. Whom did Paul encounter?
Hints: 5 letters, begins with J, ends with s....
This is nonsense. Some basic literary analysis will convince even the most skeptical that the New Testament was not written by a single scribe.
Try opening the bible and reading it.
Read “Religion on Trial,” by Craig Parton, wherein he subjects everything the Bible says about Jesus Christ, including the Resurrection, to the standards of proof that would be required of a capital case in a court of law.
For Parton’s bona fides, see his web site.
Flee, Gal from O’Reilly, several years ago he started to morph into a joke of himself.
Halleluiah!!!
By His stripes we are healed
Sin has lost it’s power
Death has lost it’s sting
From the grave You have risen victoriously!
How sad for you.
Of course the accounts are similar there were eye witnesses.
Ever heard of Josephus.
When you are talking about “documentation” did you except they kept hard drives and passed them down through the years?
Or you are dismissing the first hand accounts of Jesus’ followers?
What documentation do you want?
2,000 years of history, when would yo be satisfied?
Since you are interested in documentation, please document: *your findings which document Paul never met Jesus
*your findings which document that Paul urged the disciples to write down their accounts AND they did not do this for decades
*your finding that documents a single scribe wrote all accounts
*your findings that documents no other accounts were written that mentioned Jesus
Maroons,
howbout Anno Domini -AD 2013 and counting, just random start of calendar??
However, I watch the Bloviator because for many years I've been regularly posting his most egregious errors, sins, weaseling, fence-straddling, moral equivalencies, interruptions, overtalking and arrogance....and most of all his statist/populist meanderings, crusades and righteous indignations.
Besides all that, I want to be the first to report on this board the night that Bill finally admits on the air that Obama is a SOCIALIST. The word still hasn't passed his lips in all the five years of the Hussein presidency. He stated a couple weeks ago that he STILL doesn't think the Won is a socialist.
It's almost like someone will have to whack him on the back of his head so that the "S-word" will fly out of his throat of its own volition.
I always like to keep tabs on what the enemies of the Republic are doing and saying....a handy habit I got into when I first read the Communist Manifesto and Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" decades ago.
I believe in PUSHING BACK on every TV leftie and propagandist in my own little way.
Leni
Fact - Paul NEVER mentioned such a meeting. If he had I can guarantee he would have mentioned it in his letters.
Logic dictates your second question. The disciples NEVER wrote anything until Paul (who was in Rome and under house arrest) and was trying to collect as much documentation as he could from people. He wrote to everyone one he could find in and around Israel that may have known Jesus and his disciples.
It was during this time (over 20 plus years after the fact) that Paul apparently made contact and received the letters which were to be used in his defense for treason against the Roman Deities.
One can logically come to that conclusion by reading the different chapters of the bible and not the many similarities which is not normal. 12 people each writing their own letters speak in different term and remember things in various mannerisms. That is why I suggest that a single scribe wrote the letters for the Disciples because it was well known that none of them knew how to write in ANY language. They were all commoners and commoners were not allowed to learn to read and write except if given permission by the Pharisees or the Romans.
Can YOU point to ANY documents during that time that mentions Jesua (Jesus).
Apply your questions to yourself and see what kind of answers you can come up with. Study and learn. Research, Research and even more Research shows no such mention - except by the efforts of Paul and no letters between him and the Disciples have ever surfaced.
You are making the claim, document it.
Josephus did not even start his research until 60 to 70 years after the fact. Much of what he wrote on other subjects were pure and simple “Hear say” and “conjecture”. That is why only Christians point to him as credible. Nobody else ever mentions his works except to say that he got very few of his fact straight, regardless of his subject.
Oral history was pretty accurate until the advent of written language and this event was on the cusp of said event. The Greeks were teaching everyone they could find how to read and write but the skill of Oral history was all that existed in Israel during the time of this event. Herod would chop the heads or crucify people who were not authorized to read and write. He controlled the Scribes and copies of everything they wrote on any subject (even transactions between business men) was sent to Herod.
The Followers of Jesus did not write down squat. It was against the law unless you were Greek, Roman or Jewish Royalty.
There were quite a few writers (including Herod) who NEVER mentioned Jesus and his disciples.
2,000 years of history, or 2,000 year of misrepresentation by the early Catholic Church? THEY were the ones who picked and choose what was to be written and what was to be ignored or covered up.
NO. You are making the claim, YOU document it.
I have studied many subjects and one thing I have found out is that ALL stories get exaggerated and facts get lost because those people during that era did not have the privilege of reading and writing. IT WAS AGAINST THE LAW for a commoner to read and write.
That is what scribes were for. Then the scribe would send ALL copies to King Herod.
Example - Did the Vikings wear helmets with horns on them?
No. Vagner invented that for his operas. It was Broonhilda that was the first to have horns on a so called Viking Helmet.
I NEVER SAID that this was written by a single scribe. YOU mad the assertion without knowing what scribes did. They transcribed (documented) what others said as best they could.
Where were the disciples after Jesua (Jesus) died.
THEY SPLIT and were never to be heard from again until Paul tracked some of them down and got statements.
They basically went into hiding for two plus decades and after having their statements transcribed for Paul, they went back into hiding.
Timothy went as far as India go escape from Herod. Where the others went I don’t know but they most likely went back to their old careers under assumed names.
Paul encountered someone called Jesus or Jesua. Rather Common name.
He made no special note of said meeting until after the sand storm where he lost his sight and was cured and then recalled Jesua (Jesus), but never again saw or talked with him.
It was many years later that he became a believer. It did not happen overnight.
You would think he would have looked Jesus up and talked philosophy (religion) before heading off to Rome to spread the word.
Paul DID like the Philosophy and it fit his nature, but he was still a Roman Citizen and Carried a Roman Sword.
Try this - Read the book - “Misquoting Jesus”.
I doubt any human can translate ANY document over 2000 years and not end up with facts that are so screwed up that the original writing would not be recognized if it was ever found.
Historians NEVER report fact on any subject unless the ORIGINAL document can be found. Human nature is to modify, translate to their new language or beliefs and in 2000 years you would not recognize much if anything of the original document let alone the original events.
What facts we do have are partial parchments from the 5th century century and they look NOTHING LIKE OUR CURRENT BIBLE but only a hint of the same storyline.
Sorry, sweetie you are the one apparently denying it all, I accept the first hand accounts and those already listed it is you who claim they are bogus.
Provide your documentation to back up your claim, I already have, you just apparently aren’t interested.
~CS Lewis
The Hunchback of Notre Dame I recall because his face rang a bell.
Damascus Road was a very short meeting between Paul and someone he had never met before - Jesus.
Jesus was not an uncommon name. Like Bob or John. It was not until Paul was blinded and supposedly cured by this Jesua (Jesus) that it was of any substance.
Paul never saw Jesus or sought him until years later. (Well After his death).
PLEASE NOTE - I CAN ACTUALLY SAY I SAT ON THE RABBI’S SEAT IN THE CHURCH JUST OUTSIDE OF TARSUS TURKEY WHERE PAUL ESTABLISHED HIS FIRST CHURCH. I SAT EXACTLY WHERE PAUL SAT. (Probably numerous times).
Can you say the same about your personal experiences or does it only come from a bible that that been modified Thousands upon Thousands of times in the past 2 thousand years?
SERIOUSLY BUB. I have and I have researched its many variations.
I have lived and excavated sites in and around Tarsus Turkey.
I know that God (GOD) exists.
I have no proof except the bible which in no way today resembles the 5th century parchments that were the Bible then, and what about the variations that occurred in the 5 centuries before that?
No WISE man ever believes a story in its entirety unless he has the original document. WE have nothing close to the original documents, so believe what you want, just don’t expect me to believe what you do as I know stories change DRASTICALLY through time and translations.
It is a nice story and I wish it were true but I know history and history tells me that stories change with the passing of each printing. EVEN (Treasure Island) by Robert Lewis Stevenson.
First hand counts?
Passed down through 2000 years and I don’t know how many translations and rewordings?
Read the Book - Misquoting Jesus and get back with me.
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