Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

District's P.E. Teachers Average Tens of Thousands of Dollars More Than Math and Science Employees
Michigan Capitol Confidential ^ | 3/2/2013 | Tom Gantert

Posted on 03/05/2013 12:27:58 PM PST by MichCapCon

In the Wayne-Westland Community Schools, high school math teachers are the lowest paid as a group and make on average almost $25,000 less a year than the physical education teachers.

The high school science teachers make $11,000 less than the district’s gym teachers on average.

The salaries are set by a six-year teacher’s contract Wayne-Westland agreed to in 2008 and runs through 2014. The salary schedule determines pay solely by years of experience and education background.

On average, physical education teachers were the highest paid group and made $78,675 a year. Teacher gross salaries can also include pay for extracurricular activities, such as coaching a sports team or teaching a class during their break. High school science teachers made $67,564 and high school math teachers made $53,775.

Wayne-Westland School District Spokeswoman Jenny Johnson didn’t respond to a request for comment.

"This illustrates that school districts don’t take into consideration need when they determine teacher salaries,” said Michael Van Beek, education policy director at the Mackinac Center for Public Policy. “It is based on longevity and college degrees. There are calls for more high quality math and more science teachers particularly at the high school level from all corners of the country. And this district and other districts like it are making it more difficult for themselves to attract and retain more high quality math and science teachers because they are willing to pay other teachers who aren’t in as high demand as those who are.

"There is a widespread agreement that they are going to need to reward quality math and science teachers," Van Beek said. "And under this system, they can’t do that."

The disparity in salaries for the fields of math and science is significant because of a national debate over the demand for more quality science and math teachers in the classroom. The National Education Association, the nation's largest teachers' union, has pledged to help get more teachers into those fields, but the union backs the single-salary schedule.

The issue is not restricted to just one district. In 2011 in the Troy Public Schools, seven gym teachers made more than an advanced placement biology teacher who was honored as a teacher of the year.

State Superintendent Mike Flanagan said earlier this year that all teachers should make $100,000 as part of a bigger solution to get higher quality math and science teachers.

A 2010 law signed by then-Gov. Jennifer Granholm requires school districts to use job performance as a “significant factor” in determining teacher pay. But nearly all districts still use a single salary schedule, in which pay is based almost entirely on years on the job and college credentials. A few have adopted a policy of paying their “highly effective” teachers

The data for the analysis was taken from the district’s transparency link on its web page where it listed all of the employees’ salaries for 2012.


TOPICS: Education; Science
KEYWORDS: jennifergranholm; jennygrandstand; jennyjohnson; mathteachers; mea; michaelvanbeek; michigan; mikeflanagan; nea; peteachers; schools; science; teachers; teacherspay; troy; troypublicschools; union; waynewestland

1 posted on 03/05/2013 12:28:09 PM PST by MichCapCon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: MichCapCon
I've heard (but don't have any citations, sorry) that PE teachers tend to latch onto a job and stay forever, thus building up lots of seniority. Math and science teachers more often jump between schools or just leave teaching and go into actual math or science which lowers their average seniority.
2 posted on 03/05/2013 12:43:02 PM PST by KarlInOhio (Choose one: the yellow and black flag of the Tea Party or the white flag of the Republican Party.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MichCapCon

As a former high school and college football coach, I can assure you that the extra income from coaching supplements is well earned....High school coaches not only spend the time coaching, but field maintainance, locker room prep, equioment maintainance etc takes a huge amount of time and effort.


3 posted on 03/05/2013 12:44:48 PM PST by Boonie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Boonie

That reminded me of our old baseball coach, Coach Jones working on the baseball field with rake, shovel, lawn mower etc. Basically he was both coach and groundskeeper.

Often working till dark.


4 posted on 03/05/2013 12:51:24 PM PST by yarddog (Per Ardua Ad Alta.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: yarddog

Yep...That’s standard for almost all coaches...And it doesn’t just end with the season...Baseball, soccer, and football fields require year round care....


5 posted on 03/05/2013 12:58:02 PM PST by Boonie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: MichCapCon

In Michigan, apparently...

Football > Math and Science.

We need a school the football team can be proud of!


6 posted on 03/05/2013 1:02:19 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Boonie

Yes Coach Jones also coached football and basketball. Now that I think about it, he was not a P.E. instructor tho. He taught math. In fact all three of our high schools math instructors were either coaches or retired coaches.


7 posted on 03/05/2013 1:04:59 PM PST by yarddog (Per Ardua Ad Alta.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: allmendream

What is it about “supplements” that you don’t understand?????


8 posted on 03/05/2013 1:06:09 PM PST by Boonie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: allmendream

From the article...”... Teacher gross salaries can also include pay for extracurricular activities, such as coaching a sports team or teaching a class during their break...”

BTW, I taught science when I taught at the HS level.....


9 posted on 03/05/2013 1:08:44 PM PST by Boonie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Boonie
http://chronicle.com/article/Bonuses-Pushed-Michigan-State/62636/

“Michigan State University's men's basketball coach, Tom Izzo, came close to breaking the eight-figure barrier for coaches’ pay in 2006, pocketing more than $8.7-million in total compensation, according to a Chronicle analysis of tax documents.”

OK.

Football > Science and Math

AND

Basketball > Science and Math.

And it isn't just Michigan.

Very often the guy paid the most of any State Employee is some sports coach. I guess the taxpayers really like their sports! They sure end up paying a lot for it!

10 posted on 03/05/2013 1:12:28 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Boonie

I would agree with your assessment. Coaching, no matter what others may think of it, is a tough gig. You have to deal with kids, parents, boosters, administration folks.

And its not just X’s and O’s. Its part teacher, part counselor, part manager, and part coach.

If you are a coach with talented kids...its even more involved. You are the mentor that takes the kids through the college scouting process.

It is a lot more difficult than proctoring the chess club.


11 posted on 03/05/2013 1:15:01 PM PST by Vermont Lt (Does anybody really know what time it is? Does anybody really care?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: allmendream

If you would read the article, you might realize that this story is about HIGH SCHOOL.....

BIG difference a major college sports program and high school athletics...

But evidently, this doesn’t mean anything to you...


12 posted on 03/05/2013 1:15:59 PM PST by Boonie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Boonie
Often, when I was mowing the baseball field on a hot summer day, I'd wonder why I was donating my time to a business with a multimillion dollar budget while over paid and under worked administrators were sitting in the ac doing nothing.

But, like most coaches, I felt the field was a reflection on me and that my players deserved to have their hard work honored by having the field in the best shape possible.

13 posted on 03/05/2013 1:27:17 PM PST by fungoking (Tis a pleasure to live in the Ozarks)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Boonie

Unlike preparing lessons and tests, grading papers and homework etc which takes no time and effort at all...


14 posted on 03/05/2013 1:33:04 PM PST by LastNorwegian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: LastNorwegian

My Brother was a teacher. He spent a lot of time outside the classroom doing school related work. He probably devoted most of his life to teaching. I visited his classes a couple of times and I hate to say it but he was not a very good teacher.

My Grandfather was also a teacher and principal. When I was younger I was constantly running into people who were taught by him. I could always expect the same statement: “He was the best teacher I ever had”.

One day I asked my Father if Granddaddy spent much time out of the classroom working on his school teaching. Daddy told my he never spent a minute on class work outside of school. Granddaddy was a truly brilliant man and he just didn’t need to prepare any lessons etc. If he graded papers he would do it at school.


15 posted on 03/05/2013 1:42:12 PM PST by yarddog (Per Ardua Ad Alta.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: MichCapCon

That and the perverts get an up close look at the fresh meat parading by naked. You know the women coaches....


16 posted on 03/05/2013 1:58:49 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MichCapCon

Not many Math and Science teachers see student making 20 million a year like some Physical Education Teachers do. If you want to use getting paid by how successful the students do then you have to accept that some teachers will be paid more than others because the student is more successful.


17 posted on 03/05/2013 1:59:16 PM PST by napscoordinator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Boonie
People fund what they value. Capitalism is a great way of determining who deserves what. But when taxpayer money is involved suddenly it becomes perverse that the highest paid person at any given school (focus = Academics) is the coach of a sports team.

The same trend exists at both the High School and College level - state funds going to fund a sports team rather than science or math. But people fund what they value - and I am sure the school thinks they get good value for paying the coach that much.

I remember in the show “Friday Nigh Lights” (not a freekin’ documentary - I know) the coach of the local High School got paid a lot more than your average teacher. I am sure he brought in a lot of that money - but it is a shame that academics doesn't attract the same money or interest in the local community.

People fund what they value.

18 posted on 03/05/2013 2:06:11 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: LastNorwegian

Coaches also have this responsibility along with the other things...


19 posted on 03/05/2013 2:43:21 PM PST by JW1949
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: MichCapCon

PE teachers typically take extra gigs as coaches, asst coaches and even Drivers Ed teachers.


20 posted on 03/05/2013 3:43:15 PM PST by muir_redwoods (Don't fire until you see the blue of their helmets)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MichCapCon

“In the Wayne-Westland Community Schools, high school math teachers are the lowest paid as a group and make on average almost $25,000 less a year than the physical education teachers.”

It sounds like the math teachers are getting paid based on their capability...so what’s the problem?


21 posted on 03/05/2013 3:48:14 PM PST by BobL (Look up "CSCOPE" if you want to see something really scary)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: napscoordinator

Only a tiny fraction of gym coaches will ever coach a pro athlete. Most science and math teachers will teach far more people that are highly paid in the tech industry.

Math and Science are vastly more generators of wealth in this country than professional athletics.


22 posted on 03/05/2013 4:36:57 PM PST by Strategerist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: MichCapCon
The high school science teachers make $11,000 less than the district’s gym teachers on average. The salaries are set by a six-year teacher’s contract Wayne-Westland agreed to in 2008 and runs through 2014. The salary schedule determines pay solely by years of experience and education background. On average, physical education teachers were the highest paid group and made $78,675 a year. Teacher gross salaries can also include pay for extracurricular activities, such as coaching a sports team or teaching a class during their break. High school science teachers made $67,564 and high school math teachers made $53,775.

This is such scare tatic BS. Public school teachers are on salary schedules. The PE teachers have been in their jobs longer than the science teachers. As a new teacher I hate this - mainly because I have over 20 years of accounting and marketing experience, I get paid 20k less than the teacher that has been there "teaching" while I was out there doing. Yes, it's not really fair, but those are the rules you play by when you choose to teach as a second career. One day those teachers will retire and will be replace with new college graduates that will get a salary of about 40k per year WITH A MASTERS DEGREE. But will teach right out of the textbook.

23 posted on 03/05/2013 4:53:14 PM PST by Cyclone59 (Obama is like Ron Burgundy - he will read ANYTHING that is on the teleprompter)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Strategerist

Most all of these PE teachers are being paid more for the EXTRA work they do...What about this do you people not understand???


24 posted on 03/05/2013 5:00:28 PM PST by JW1949
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Strategerist

Do you have any idea of how much EXTRA time is spent by a teacher who also coaches athletics?????


25 posted on 03/05/2013 5:01:48 PM PST by JW1949
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: JW1949

If your gym teachers grade as many tests and as much homework as normal teachers then something is very wrong with your schools.


26 posted on 03/05/2013 5:16:48 PM PST by LastNorwegian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks MichCapCon.
In the Wayne-Westland Community Schools, high school math teachers are the lowest paid as a group and make on average almost $25,000 less a year than the physical education teachers... The salaries are set by a six-year teacher’s contract Wayne-Westland agreed to in 2008... determines pay solely by years of experience and education background... The disparity in salaries for the fields of math and science is significant because of a national debate over the demand for more quality science and math teachers in the classroom. The National Education Association, the nation's largest teachers' union, has pledged to help get more teachers into those fields, but the union backs the single-salary schedule... A 2010 law signed by then-Gov. Jennifer Granholm requires school districts to use job performance as a "significant factor" in determining teacher pay.
IOW, both the NEA/MEA and Granholm knew that the law was a humbug.


27 posted on 03/05/2013 6:07:36 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: LastNorwegian

Do your “normal” teachers water, mow, sow, clean, and maintain fields, locker rooms, gyms, wash uniforms, and various other duties during their summer time off?????

No, they don’t....

And ALL coaches are not PE teachers....


28 posted on 03/05/2013 6:08:49 PM PST by JW1949
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson