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To: 2ndDivisionVet
One question about ‘Fracking’ that *is* bothering me, leftist talking point or not-
is it true that the companies doing fracking are keeping the actual chemical make up of the stuff they inject along with the steam a ‘trade secret’?

I mean I'm far from an envirowhacko, being a Silverado drivin’, wood burning Harley rider, but the idea of somebody injecting into the ground below my (and my water supply) and not telling anyone what it is is... disturbing. Trade secretes my have their place, but with food or medecine, we have a choice of we don't want to use the product containing it, with drilling not so much.

As with nuclear power, a good thing overall, but there should be strict liability with no time limit for anything going wrong, I don't know if a mere 50 or 60 year track record is good enough for a process that could conceivably render an area uninhabitable in 100 year's time.... Don't really know, not my area of expertise....

14 posted on 01/03/2013 12:07:34 PM PST by RedStateRocker (Nuke Mecca, Deport all illegals, abolish the IRS, DEA and ATF.)
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To: RedStateRocker; thackney

Thackney is one person who can answer that question well.


16 posted on 01/03/2013 2:08:21 PM PST by Army Air Corps (Four Fried Chickens and a Coke)
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To: RedStateRocker; Army Air Corps
is it true that the companies doing fracking are keeping the actual chemical make up of the stuff they inject along with the steam a ‘trade secret’?

All companies, at all location, are required to have on site the MSDS for every chemical being used on site. So in every location, there is access to what chemicals are being used, but not the exact amounts.

Some states, like Texas, have required that companies have a public online database where individuals can access what chemicals are being used for hydraulic fracturing.

Railroad Commissioners Adopt One of Nation's Most Comprehensive Hydraulic Fracturing Chemical Disclosure Requirements
http://www.rrc.state.tx.us/pressreleases/2011/121311.php

That disclosure must be made at a web site the industry had already started where multiple companies at many different locations had already started listing those chemical to put the public more at ease.

http://fracfocus.org/

At Fracfocus.org, you can look up individual wells just by a geographic map. However, it is not yet used by everyone and is still a growing database.

Other major companies that actually perform the hydraulic fracturing (not the oil company, but the company hired for that stage of the well completion) have started their own online database for people to search. For example, you can search what Haliburton has used in some different areas.

http://www.halliburton.com/public/projects/pubsdata/hydraulic_fracturing/fluids_disclosure.html

I don't know if a mere 50 or 60 year track record is good enough for a process that could conceivably render an area uninhabitable in 100 year's time....

100 year time??? Do you understand that after a well is hydraulic fractured, that fluid removed so the well can now flow out the cracks made during fracturing? Not every drop will initially come out, but nearly all does. However, the flowing gas/oil is pushing that remaining hydraulic fluid back up the well. It isn't going to stay down there. The pressure of the reservoir is pushing that fluid back out. It is not going to stay down there and spread out; there field pressures are pushing it the other direction.

17 posted on 01/03/2013 4:49:15 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: RedStateRocker; Vendome

Could you answer his question? I know you said you had some experience with fracking.


18 posted on 01/03/2013 5:57:34 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (I'll raise $2million for Sarah Palin's presidential run. What'll you do?)
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To: RedStateRocker
I mean I'm far from an envirowhacko, being a Silverado drivin’, wood burning Harley rider, but the idea of somebody injecting into the ground below my (and my water supply) and not telling anyone what it is is... disturbing. Trade secretes my have their place, but with food or medecine, we have a choice of we don't want to use the product containing it, with drilling not so much.

Here's Exon's disclosure. Look at the comments at the end and you can easily see how ignorant many people are.

And here's Haliburton's list of chemicals used. Again, nothing 'scary' for anyone with a basic understanding of science but 'scary names' that the eco-Marxists can use to herd the sheep.

None of the "Chemicals" are secret. The specific companies keep their proportion used in various formations 'proprietary' for competitive advantage, but both the state regulators here in Pennsylvania and the Fed EPA know exactly what is being pumped down each well. They are just not allowed to tell Co A what formulation Co B is using a few miles away.

But none of it is going to ever 'poison' anyone.

21 posted on 01/03/2013 7:26:38 PM PST by Ditto
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To: RedStateRocker; 2ndDivisionVet

The chemical you are speaking of is an emulsifier and surfacant.

Essentially it makes water wetter, enabling the pressure of the wash combined with granules of sand and rock to displace oil from the many cavities and fractures pushing the oil to pumps and out of the ground.

It works even better when heated and wanna know what it is?

Soap that is low sudsing.

I used to sell Amway LOC soap to oil companies and it becomes 100 times wetter when heated.

They will call it by different names under different manufacturers but essentially that’s what they use.

Also, there are no studies proving that displacement technologies result in polluting ground water.

For various reasons it isn’t even likely it would happen.

I can’t go into the why’s and why not’s because I want to catch up on the news.

You have nothing to worry about making an area uninhabitable for 100 years except....Sinkholes.

You blow out what was supporting underground caverns and sometimes it will lose structure but, they happen without fracking anyway.


23 posted on 01/03/2013 11:38:31 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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