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Lesson of Colorado: Ignore Victim Disarmament Zones and pack concealed anyway.
Sipsey Street Irregulars ^ | 20 July, 2012 | Mike Vanderboegh

Posted on 07/21/2012 8:51:43 AM PDT by marktwain

You know, my daughters go to the movies. What if Malia and Sasha had been at the theater, as so many of our kids do every day? -- Barack Obama reacting to the "Colorado Movie Massacre."

I'll tell you what would have happened -- the Secret Service protective detail would have put several bullets through the facepiece of the moke's gas mask -- end of story. The hypocrisy of these Mandarins, who live in bodyguard envelopes whenever they venture out of their designated Green Zones, knows no bounds. One of my daughters went to another midnight showing of the same movie here in Birmingham last night. She went with her boyfriend who was packing his permitted FEG Browning Hi-Power clone, despite the fact that the theater has a "no guns" policy.

Virginia Citizens Defense League lists Cinemark Theaters (which also owns Tinseltown, Cinearts, and Century Theatres) as being victim disarmament zones upon orders of the management. If so, it was only a matter of time before something like this happened.

Of course, as I lay on the couch upstairs this morning trying to control my nausea, I watched the predictable blood dancers of the victim disarmament crowd (Bloomberg, the Brady Bunch, et. al.) who made it more difficult to hold down my breakfast (a struggle I ultimately lost).

To me, the lesson of last night is to ignore Victim Disarmament Zones and pack concealed anyway. Only you are responsible for your safety, not some risk-averse corporate drone a thousand miles away.

We will find out in time what motivated this evil prick, but the essential lesson is that only the ARMED intended victims of a mass shooting can interrupt them in time to make a difference. The same goes for government-sponsored genocides.


TOPICS: Conspiracy; Government; History; Politics
KEYWORDS: banglist; co; constitution; theater
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The country has moved beyond the idea that disarming the innocent will protect them.
1 posted on 07/21/2012 8:51:51 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain
the Secret Service protective detail would have put several bullets through the facepiece of the moke's gas mask -- end of story.

Hell he would have never gotten near the building.
2 posted on 07/21/2012 8:56:31 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: marktwain

What is interesting is the “fight or flight” response of the masses today. Had 20 rushed him it would have been over but it sounds like everyone ran.


3 posted on 07/21/2012 8:57:39 AM PDT by edcoil (It is not over until I win.)
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To: marktwain

That will work until we have to pass thru a metal detector just to get into the movies.


4 posted on 07/21/2012 9:02:57 AM PDT by Delta 21 (Oh Crap !! Did I say that out loud ??!??)
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To: marktwain

The libs cannot comprehend that law enforcement is only effective after a crime has been committed. If you find yourself in the middle of a crime you can only rely on me, myself and I.


5 posted on 07/21/2012 9:03:22 AM PDT by ImJustAnotherOkie (zerogottago)
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To: marktwain
Good idea. Here's another idea........instead of risking law enforcement officers to dismantle the booby traps in this lunatic's apartment, get all valuables from neighboring units, move law enforcement to a block away and send him in to do it.
6 posted on 07/21/2012 9:06:46 AM PDT by liberalh8ter (If Barack has a memory like a steel trap, why can't he remember what the Constitution says?)
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To: marktwain
In mho, even if someone were carrying concealed in the theater it would have been difficult (to say the least) to bring down the mass murderer.

It was dark, he was wearing black and a ballistic vest, CS gas makes you cry, and people were running in a panic.

I've trained in tactical situations, and I would not be very confident in bringing the perp down.

5.56mm

7 posted on 07/21/2012 9:10:35 AM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: marktwain

These mass shootings are all done by mentally imbalanced people, but all of them are sane enough to commit their deeds in no-gun zones.


8 posted on 07/21/2012 9:18:31 AM PDT by umgud (No Rats, No Rino's)
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To: M Kehoe

But I would have given my life trying to protect the others...


9 posted on 07/21/2012 9:19:06 AM PDT by Mathews (Ecclesiastes 10:2 (NIV))
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To: M Kehoe

I hear you. However, if it was clear that more people were going to get shot, including myself, it would be worth the extra risk to bring him down. Aim for what is not protected.


10 posted on 07/21/2012 9:25:46 AM PDT by firebasecody (Orthodoxy, proclaiming the Truth since AD 33)
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To: M Kehoe

>>I’ve trained in tactical situations, and I would not be very confident in bringing the perp down.

What’s your confidence level for bringing him down if you are not armed? Most people aren’t saying that a guy with a Kel-Tec or J-frame should go charging up to a guy with an assault rifle. But, when you find yourself cornered by the press of the crowd on one side and the armed nutjob on the other, that little pocket gun is at least a chance to survive.


11 posted on 07/21/2012 9:28:06 AM PDT by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: M Kehoe
I've trained in tactical situations, and I would not be very confident in bringing the perp down.

And think of the lawsuits against you if one of your shots hit someone.

What was amazing to me is that nobody tried to jump him. They were so close. Just one person jump on him, and others would follow.

We need a "Let's Roll!" attitude in facing evil.

12 posted on 07/21/2012 9:31:50 AM PDT by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: M Kehoe
In mho, even if someone were carrying concealed in the theater it would have been difficult (to say the least) to bring down the mass murderer.

I defer to your training in that assessment and take it at face value as accurate. But the difference between being armed and being unarmed is the difference between difficult and near impossible.

13 posted on 07/21/2012 9:31:50 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: edcoil
"What is interesting is the “fight or flight” response of the masses today. Had 20 rushed him it would have been over but it sounds like everyone ran."

I'd venture to say most were simply frozen with fear. I watched the images of the crowd emerging from the theater. Most were not even prepared to run. Like my daughter who attended a similar showing of Batman here that same evening with her gaggle of friends. They went to the theater in flip-flops, pajama shorts, and carrying only car keys and cell phones. Like they just rolled straight out of bed. Many probably had. A night at the movies. What could go wrong?

14 posted on 07/21/2012 9:32:50 AM PDT by PowderMonkey (WILL WORK FOR AMMO)
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To: M Kehoe
In a group of dehorned steer i was watching, one seemed to be the boss. He had more space, ate what he wished. He had a small stubble of horn, more than the others, and used it to get his way.

Sharp claws are better than soft paws, knives are bettrer than knuckles, and a pistol is better than either.

Don't know how it would turn out with one, but you do know how it turns out without one.

ps, body armor is nice, but still hurts like hell and sets one back to catch a fat round center of mass.

15 posted on 07/21/2012 9:35:39 AM PDT by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: Delta 21
"That will work until we have to pass thru a metal detector just to get into the movies."

That would not had affected this situation. The theater did not secure the exit doors by either passive or active monitoring of their use. Security measures exist to monitor or alarm these doors as well as the software to indicate an out of normal opening or closing of these doors. As far as the taping over the strike, additional measures such as magnetic latches would also have prevented this from happening. The theater owners are in deep legal trouble on this.

16 posted on 07/21/2012 9:40:43 AM PDT by mazda77 ("Defeating the Totalitarian Lie" By: Hilmar von Campe. Everybody should read it.)
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To: M Kehoe

I believer the applicable words are “Close with and destroy the enemy” and maybe “If you’re going to go down, take them down with you”.

Of course I’m writing that as an overage, armchair Rambo sitting at a computer.

Could I have actually done it or tried it? I don’t know since I’ve never been in the situation. I hope I’ll never have to find out.


17 posted on 07/21/2012 9:43:05 AM PDT by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the depth and breadth of their ignorance. Cursed be those who don't.)
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To: liberalh8ter
...instead of risking law enforcement officers to dismantle the booby traps in this lunatic's apartment, get all valuables from neighboring units, move law enforcement to a block away and send him in to do it.

(Yeah...that'll do it...place more weapons of destruction @ his ready disposal /sarc)

18 posted on 07/21/2012 9:52:36 AM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
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To: Colofornian
Wrong....he rigged the place to kill whomever entered it. Let him fall victim to his own devices.
19 posted on 07/21/2012 9:55:49 AM PDT by liberalh8ter (If Barack has a memory like a steel trap, why can't he remember what the Constitution says?)
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To: mazda77
The theater did not secure the exit doors by either passive or active monitoring of their use. Security measures exist to monitor or alarm these doors as well as the software to indicate an out of normal opening or closing of these doors. As far as the taping over the strike, additional measures such as magnetic latches would also have prevented this from happening. The theater owners are in deep legal trouble on this.

Agreed.

While I hate placing the primary focus/"blame" on anybody other than the terrorists, the theater didn't even need to place security people directly @ the doors -- until an alarm would signal that a door's been propped open for "x" amount of time. I mean such an alarm makes financial sense alone (freeloaders getting in)

20 posted on 07/21/2012 9:56:07 AM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
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To: marktwain

Huffington Post comments from hand wringing liberals to ban guns, ban the NRA, and make guns so expensively stupid taxed it will make them harder to get. Libs never blame the shooter, but the gun or those that “allow” guns or ammo, when we have a right to bear arms. They never understand our own 2nd ammendment. Would they have told the founding fathers to their face they were wrong? Do the libs have that much gaul to have insulted the founding fathers to their faces?


21 posted on 07/21/2012 9:59:14 AM PDT by Blue Highway
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To: marktwain

It was a dark theater, and he started with smoke bombs. Even armed the smart move was to duck, there’s no way to have target certainty in that environment.


22 posted on 07/21/2012 9:59:27 AM PDT by discostu (Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends.)
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To: All; liberalh8ter
Wrong....he rigged the place to kill whomever entered it. Let him fall victim to his own devices.

BTW...per interview with a neighboring family of his apartment complex, Holmes set his music to blare for an hour straight (midnight-->1 a.m.) and may have left his apt unlocked. A teen girl was sent (or went) from I believe the apt below (may have been nextdoor) to knock on his door to ask him to turn down the music. She said she jiggled the door to see if it was unlocked, but something inwardly told her NOT to open the door.

23 posted on 07/21/2012 9:59:59 AM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
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To: PowderMonkey
Most were probably not even prepared to run.

Very good point, PowderMonkey. Most people, especially the youth, lack basic preparedness--simple judgment. Shoes, jackets, water...not to mention awareness of surroundings. Most are in what Jeff Cooper called "condition white", blissful unawareness of surroundings.

I carry a small tactical flashlight when I go to the theater. In this low light env the high intensity light would have blinded the shooter long enough to approach or evade. It will be a bullet magnet, so do not leave it on continuously, or activate it when it is center of mass?! Of course I'd just shoot him, but I avoid gun free zones. I am armed generally unless there are metal scanners or pat downs.

24 posted on 07/21/2012 10:04:38 AM PDT by nonsporting
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To: M Kehoe

I disagree. Four or five people pelting him with lead moving 700 to 1000 feet per second would have been a powerful distraction, even to someone wearing full body armor. One or two of those on the head, even with the protective helmet, would be a threat stopper. At the very least it would have provided others an opportunity to escape.


25 posted on 07/21/2012 10:10:15 AM PDT by pallis
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To: TigersEye
The difference between being armed and being unarmed is the difference between difficult and near impossible. mental attitude.
26 posted on 07/21/2012 10:44:33 AM PDT by B4Ranch (There's Two Choices... Stand Up and Be Counted ... Or Line Up and Be Numbered .)
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To: nonsporting
Years of ingrained professional habit precludes "condition white" from being part of my makeup ever again:
- I never attend large crowded venues. Won't do it. Not even for the Second Coming.
- I never enter any location unless I've established a way out. A quick one.
- I never sit with my back to the door.
- I never visit sidewalk cafes or sit by the front window.
- Unattended parcel, backpack, or attache' case? I leave the area.
- No guns allowed? Metal detectors? You won't see me there.
- Ring my doorbell at O'dark Hundred? Talk loud. Talk fast. Get off my porch.
- Baggy pants gang bangers approaching on the sidewalk? I've already selected 1st, 2nd, and 3rd targets before they've made up their minds to jump me.
- Active shooter? I'm an Olympic gold medalist in the high hurdles (I don't have to outrun the shooter, I just have to outrun you)
Flight not possible? I empty both mags into the sumbitch.
27 posted on 07/21/2012 10:45:35 AM PDT by PowderMonkey (WILL WORK FOR AMMO)
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To: KrisKrinkle
“Close with and destroy the enemy” and maybe “If you’re going to go down, take them down with you”.

Something we should be teaching our children. I learned my lesson on the subject as a teenager, and later in life applied it (in a situation caused by my own stupidity, but it worked).

28 posted on 07/21/2012 10:53:17 AM PDT by no-s (when democracy is displaced by tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote)
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To: marktwain

The problem with the authors thinking is how important is it to see a movie? If the theater has a no gun policy, and you willingly ignore it, you are saying that the film is so important that it is worth not only dissecting property rights, but breaking the law.

Honestly. If the theater’s policy is untenable, don’t patronize. It is that simple.


29 posted on 07/21/2012 11:01:05 AM PDT by Melas (u)
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To: B4Ranch
The difference between being armed and being unarmed is the difference between difficult and near impossible. mental attitude.

True. In some cases the attitude is a willingness to break the law and carry anyway.

30 posted on 07/21/2012 11:08:12 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: no-s

“...in a situation caused by my own stupidity,...”

I think we’ve all had those. The trick is in recognizing it. :)


31 posted on 07/21/2012 11:08:36 AM PDT by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the depth and breadth of their ignorance. Cursed be those who don't.)
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To: M Kehoe

Be prepared to hear from invincible posters who will never be in danger because they are armed.


32 posted on 07/21/2012 11:12:38 AM PDT by Melas (u)
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To: PowderMonkey

Thanks for the checklist. I do these evualuations too. It has become second nature.

When I served jury duty recently I had to leave my gun and pocket knife in a lock box. What am I a three year old who cant be trusted by the nanny State? However I did have my hickory fighting short staff (cane) with me (what a comfort) and even took it into the court room. I would rather have it than the knife.

As for the 2nd comimg I have placed my faith in the only one who can be trusted, the Lord Jesus Christ. And I look forward to his coming with a “perfect heart”, since he has forgiven me of my sins.. “I will sing of mercy and judgment, unto thee, O Lord, will I sing. I will behave myself wisely in a perfect way. O when wilt thou come unto me? I will walk within my house with a perfect heart.” (Psalm 101:1,2)


33 posted on 07/21/2012 11:23:26 AM PDT by nonsporting
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To: mazda77
Of course it didn't make a difference, that's whats got me so fired up on this. Criminals only look for the no guns sign to find out where the least resistance to their activities are, and dont obey the law. The liberal politicians will just pass more of these laws that strangle the populous and do nothing to curb the real problem.

One of the first things I said to Mrs. Delta was that there are gonna be law suits all around. The finding of the theaters negligence will truly magnify it.

: But normal everyday concealed carry movie goes who truely respect the law, thats why we got a cc permit in the first place, will enter thru the front door, and as in this case either left their weapons in the car or at home because we were aware that the theater is a gun free zone. Admittedly I now feel that the misdemeanor charge of carrying where youre not supposed to is right up there with spitting on the sidewalk or jay-walking. But the liberals through legislation or the business owners because of liability will have permanently installed metal detectors at the front doors and you wont be able to carry it in even if you wanted to.

34 posted on 07/21/2012 11:30:20 AM PDT by Delta 21 (Oh Crap !! Did I say that out loud ??!??)
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Click.

Set it right. Donate to Free Republic.

35 posted on 07/21/2012 11:31:24 AM PDT by RedMDer (https://support.woundedwarriorproject.org/default.aspx?tsid=93destr)
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To: Melas

Yep !! I dont patronize businesses that dont want me in their establishment for any reason.


36 posted on 07/21/2012 11:33:13 AM PDT by Delta 21 (Oh Crap !! Did I say that out loud ??!??)
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To: Melas; PowderMonkey
Be prepared to hear from invincible posters who will never be in danger because they are armed.

invincible - hardly

never be in danger - not in this world

armed - you betcha, but then I have been living by PowderMonkey's checklist for a very long time. If my weapon ever has to come to bear on a target, SHTF/WROL has come upon us and I will survive.

37 posted on 07/21/2012 11:35:44 AM PDT by onceone (0311, K Co., 3/5 1st Mar Div, RVN '68)
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To: PowderMonkey

Thanks for the checklist. I do these evualuations too. It has become second nature.

When I served jury duty recently I had to leave my gun and pocket knife in a lock box. What am I a three year old who cant be trusted by the nanny State? However I did have my hickory fighting short staff (cane) with me (what a comfort) and even took it into the court room. I would rather have it than the knife.

As for the 2nd comimg I have placed my faith in the only one who can be trusted, the Lord Jesus Christ. And I look forward to his coming with a “perfect heart”, since he has forgiven me of my sins.. “I will sing of mercy and judgment, unto thee, O Lord, will I sing. I will behave myself wisely in a perfect way. O when wilt thou come unto me? I will walk within my house with a perfect heart.” (Psalm 101:1,2)


38 posted on 07/21/2012 11:36:59 AM PDT by nonsporting
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To: onceone

I’m armed as well. However I’m well aware that better men than me have died with guns in their hands. Only a fool of the greatest magnitude believes he can’t lose in a firefight.


39 posted on 07/21/2012 11:44:35 AM PDT by Melas (u)
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To: M Kehoe

No doubt I would have had confidence issues as well when a night on the town turns into a shooting gallery.

But as you were crouching down behind the best cover you can find, securing your weapon in your hands, praying to our maker for the strength to do the thing that you do not want to do, and scanning the situation, see one or two or maybe more doing the same thing.

The odds are dramatically different now!! The streets belong to FREE men. Not the criminals !!


40 posted on 07/21/2012 11:50:32 AM PDT by Delta 21 (Oh Crap !! Did I say that out loud ??!??)
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To: marktwain

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2012/07/marine-new-york-city-poolees-foil-robbery-072112w/

Romney should be pushing this type of response.


41 posted on 07/21/2012 11:54:02 AM PDT by TomasUSMC ( FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM)
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To: marktwain

Sue them back to the cave man wall painting days


42 posted on 07/21/2012 11:55:47 AM PDT by TomasUSMC ( FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM)
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To: Melas
Perhaps you shouldn't own a gun.

If you are dwelling on losing, perhaps you shouldn't get in the fight. I will win. I will continue to think I will win until I am dead. Losers think about losing, winners win. There is no second place in a gunfight.

43 posted on 07/21/2012 12:05:14 PM PDT by onceone (0311, K Co., 3/5 1st Mar Div, RVN '68)
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To: TigersEye

It’s a damn shame that there wasn’t a few Marines in the audience, sitting close to the nutcase. People rarely consider how fast an attacker can cover twenty feet until they see it done. Slam into the shooter and a quick jab to the eye with a thumb deeply embedded into the brain will give the coroner a few hours work.


44 posted on 07/21/2012 12:09:43 PM PDT by B4Ranch (There's Two Choices... Stand Up and Be Counted ... Or Line Up and Be Numbered .)
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To: KrisKrinkle

Suppose he strolled up, confident you are about to be his next victim. He’s calm & about 6 feet away. He starts to raise his rifle.

If you had a revolver in your hand, with nothing to lose, could you raise YOUR arm, placing your revolver about 3 feet from his face, and pull the trigger?

I’d bet money you could - if you didn’t panic. And of course, someone who panics will just about always lose.

But then, maybe HE would panic to see the tip of a 357 Mag appear unexpectedly 3 feet from his nose.

And for reference, even if he shot you in the chest, you’d have enough blood left in your noggin to allow you to return fire for 5-20 seconds. Could a dying man empty a revolver in 5 seconds? At point blank range in the bastard’s face?


45 posted on 07/21/2012 12:09:52 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Liberalism: "Ex faslo quodlibet" - from falseness, anything follows)
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To: Melas

I was in agreement with the author but I think you have the better point.


46 posted on 07/21/2012 12:22:17 PM PDT by Yardstick
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To: onceone

Pride goeth before the fall. Care to guess in your hubris where that comes from?


47 posted on 07/21/2012 12:26:34 PM PDT by Melas (u)
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To: Yardstick

Yeah it kills me when conservatives don’t respect property rights. The only place I get iffy is on the job, because choosing between your right to self defense and feeding your family is a rock and a hard spot. However, when seeing a movie or getting a cup of coffee comes down to breaking the law or disarming, just pass on the damned movie or coffee.


48 posted on 07/21/2012 12:40:41 PM PDT by Melas (u)
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To: onceone
"I will continue to think I will win until I am dead. Losers think about losing, winners win. There is no second place in a gunfight."

One of my instructors was an old gunslinger. Headed our outfit's protective detail. Wrote our manual of arms. Scared hell out of all of us while in training. It kept us alive afterwards. Old school. From the days when the S&W Model 19 and two speed loaders was standard issue. Need more than that? You picked the wrong fight. He left me with these final words: "Never enter into a gunfight absent supreme confidence in your ability to emerge victorious! If shot, keep shooting. You won't feel the pain for at least another 30 seconds."
49 posted on 07/21/2012 1:17:41 PM PDT by PowderMonkey (WILL WORK FOR AMMO)
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To: Melas
I once read that there would be more Christians if it weren't for Christians.

You have twice now attempted to personally insult me, while I have not so treated you.

So here is the deal. You can hope to stop an incoming round with your Bible, and I'll use mine to read over the scumbag's body. We can meet afterwards for a beer, if you can make it.

50 posted on 07/21/2012 1:50:15 PM PDT by onceone (0311, K Co., 3/5 1st Mar Div, RVN '68)
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