Posted on 05/12/2012 8:09:38 AM PDT by ProgressingAmerica
I recently posted the article from the Founder of Fabian Socialism in America titled Where Socialism Was Tried and I got to thinking, what about Communism? Well, here's what he's written:
In broad outlines Asiatic, ancient, feudal, and modern bourgeois modes of production can be designated as progressive epochs in the economic formation of society. The bourgeois relations of production are the last antagonistic form of the social process of production — antagonistic not in the sense of individual antagonisms, but of one arising from the social conditions of life of the individuals; at the same time the productive forces developing in the womb of bourgeois society create the material conditions for the solution of that antagonism.
And we know what Marx considers to be the solution to this 'antagonism' - the dictatorship of the proletariat. Communism can't just be formed anywhere. It has to be done with the right conditions, the right way and in the right country. In short, the United States. Because of the specificity of conditions, Communism is probably the most utopian of all the ideologies of centralized planning. Here's a brief outline:
At a certain stage of their development, the material productive forces of society come in conflict with the existing relations of production, or — what is but a legal expression for the same thing — with the property relations within which they have been at work hitherto. From forms of development of the productive forces these relations turn into their fetters.Then begins an epoch of social revolution. With the change of the economic foundation the entire immense superstructure is more or less rapidly transformed.
I hear Obama in that, particularly the last line. But nonetheless, if it's seemed to you that communists have had their eye on the USA the way a wolf looks at a lamb, then this may explain it for you. It's because we have that superstructure, we are a 'capitalist' country. The ideal country, the one that will prove Marx right, is the United States. A little bit more:
Then begins an epoch of social revolution. With the change of the economic foundation the entire immense superstructure is more or less rapidly transformed. In considering such transformations a distinction should always be made between the material transformation of the economic conditions of production, which can be determined with the precision of natural science, and the legal, political, religious, aesthetic or philosophic — in short, ideological forms in which men become conscious of this conflict and fight it out.
When our massive 'capitalist' country implodes and goes into revolution, then they can start their "fundamental transformation" of everything, not just the modes of production. That's what he's saying. But society has to go through all of the various stages of development and reach 'antagonism'(free markets) before it can be done the right way and go into Communism. America is realistically the only one that ever has reached this stage following the "correct" evolution.
Here's how I think this works: (1)Economies go up and down, that's normal. (2)A believer in some form of planning takes advantage of a down, and makes it worse as centralized planning has disastrous effects upon economies(such as the housing bust, or the Carter years) and you end up in a true economic crisis. (3)Then, a strong-man comes in(who happens to be a hard core communist) and proposes to save the day. A "rising star" like Van Jones.
I say all of that because Marx' theory misses the boat: Free markets don't implode, the built in corrective mechanisms work. Free markets have to be forced by government to implode. If they can force it to implode(as Obama is clearly doing) then we can reach the worker's paradise.
Ping
Yes, Communism has to come before Capitalism, because otherwise there would be nothing for the Communists to steel.
Every volunteer event that draws only a few of the same people everytime, to do the work for the majority who show up later to eat, sums up socialism.
Communism is the theory that socialism would work, if you just shot a few people every so often to keep up moral.
To turn a phrase used by Charles M.Schultz in Peanuts —What if the sky really was green and the grass blue?And not just colored that way bu his characters doing happiness is.Communism has already been tried—and has failed and the useful idiots continue to insist that their progressive interpolation of the term/concept has not been tried-least not recently under their tutelage.
How close are we now? Take a good look at King Obama and his communists empire. Will he stop? No, because he resembles an insane communists dictator. We must stop him but it will take years to undo the damage even if we get the Administration, Senate and keep the House. Remember, there are many so called Republicans that are just as bad.
Sorta like saying Helen Thomas might look really hot if she just changed her outfit.
Socialism: iniquity in state form.
“How close are we now?”
Very:
15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.
26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as “normal, natural, healthy.”
delusional rants from the left..... freedom for the individual DEMANDS a capitalist society, a free society if you will-—free from the boot of dictatorial government
Communism, untried?
Au contraire, Pierre. The enforced edict of “from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs” has been tried over and over again through history, long before it was ever CALLED “Communism”, and NOBODY has ever gotten it right without resorting to naked force of arms.
By demanding individuals exert the maximum exercise of their capabilities, without compensation commensurate with that effort, and ordering the fruits of labor to be distributed according to the needs of others, discounts two very basic human traits. First of which is, no person will exert much more effort than necessary to satisfy basic needs and perceived wants, and second, perceived wants can and do exceed basic needs by surprisingly wide margins. Then again, “wants” and “needs” are not interchangeable terms, though some people see them as the same thing.
The only way to make this transaction work, is to FORCE production from those able to do something, and RATION distribution on an equalized basis to all who consume. And without a point of a very sharp weapon, or the barrel of a side arm pressed to one’s back, there is just not enough persuasive power of reason and emotional appeal for everybody to conform.
Fear and intimidation work. At least on the short term.
——Free markets have to be forced by government to implode. If they can force it to implode(as Obama is clearly doing) then we can reach the worker’s paradise.——
The end justifies the means....
Workers paradise is just another liberal speak for slave labor....
Perhaps a better question: Why hasn’t Communism really been tried?
In a sense, the authors are right that true communism hasn’t really been tried in the 164 years since Marx published his Communist Manifesto. The real question: Why not? Why, after communist leaders have convinced a sufficient minority of people in a large number of countries that communism would be a good thing, has no country tried real communism? Why are China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea, and Vietnam on the spectrum somewhere between traditional brutal dictatorships and thuggishly brutal or clownish dictatorships instead of giving real communism a try today? Why did Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, the Republic of Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia, and Slovenia never give communism a real try, instead opting for totalitarianism despite their communist rhetoric? Why is the same true in Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Russia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Afghanistan, Cambodia, Mongolia, Yemen, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, East Germany, Hungary, Poland, Romania, and Slovakia, all of which suffered under brutal regimes as their propaganda teams talked about the glories of communism? The answer is obvious to thinking people. I wonder when communists will start thinking about why every time they hand power over to a caretaker government to implement the transition to true socialism, the result is the same. I wonder when they will realize that brutal tyranny is the only possible outcome for a “communist” government. I hope that time comes before Obama reaches his goal with our country.
It takes tyranny, and creating an atmosphere of terror to make people go along with Communism.......and people like Van Jones will use terror to achieve their aims.
communism was tried....it this country...at it’s founding when the Pilgrims first arrived....everything was done for the benefit of the community...and stored...whatever was grown or made was put in a sort of “general store” if you will....sounded good...you contribute and then take what you need..only problem was after a time some were helping themselves to supplies but not actually making much of a contribution..so this plan was abandoned and our system of capitalism was developed....
go back to the early days of our nation and you can find this was tried on these shores and junked.
A history teacher of mine said Marx intended communism for Germany, a country that at the time had a strong industrial base. Marxism failed because it would be adopted by the peasantry in poorer, agricultural societies. Basically, communism can't succeed until after capitalism has made the country strong and rich.
If you want to see a perfect communist society, look at a bee hive or an ant colony. In these societies, there are no individuals, every member has a job, and does that job, never shirking it, and never complaining or doing anything against the interest of that society.
The problem is that when you try forcing that sort of society upon human beings, it will fall apart, simply due to human emotions, either due to love of family, or greed and lust (for power).
Mark
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