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The "General Welfare" Clause, Justification for Obamacare?
KrisAnneHall.com ^ | May 02, 2012 | KrisAnne Hall

Posted on 05/02/2012 7:10:35 PM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER

The federal government has assumed great responsibility to tax and provide for our citizens under the interpreted authority of the general welfare clause in the Constitution. Our Departments of Transportation, Education, Agriculture, and Interior are all justified by the general welfare clause. Most recently one of the main justifications of the Healthcare Act is that Congress has authority to create such a law because of the general welfare clause. But how Constitutional is this assumed authority? What would our founders say about this current view of federal power?

(Excerpt) Read more at krisannehall.com ...


TOPICS: Education; Politics; Society
KEYWORDS: constitution; government

1 posted on 05/02/2012 7:10:42 PM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

The “general welfare clause”is not an independent source of federal governmental powers, nor can it be used to override the constitution’s plan for a fed govt of defined (and limited) powers. Imho, such references or appeals by mass media pundits only serves to reveal their lack of understanding of our country’s system of govt, history, and legal structure. Blame it on the schools? Either way, it confuses things rather than helping Imho.


2 posted on 05/02/2012 7:20:21 PM PDT by faithhopecharity (remember when "Four more years!" was a credible campaign slogan for an incumbent?)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER
Why not? It's how drug war is justified:

_________________________________________________________

Sec. 801. Congressional findings and declarations: controlled substances

The Congress makes the following findings and declarations:

(1) Many of the drugs included within this subchapter have a useful and legitimate medical purpose and are necessary to maintain the health and general welfare of the American people.

(2) The illegal importation, manufacture, distribution, and possession and improper use of controlled substances have a substantial and detrimental effect on the health and general welfare of the American people.

_________________________________________________________

http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/21C13.txt

3 posted on 05/02/2012 7:24:54 PM PDT by Ken H (Austerity is the irresistible force. Entitlements are the immovable object.)
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To: faithhopecharity

If I recall correctly this clause says PROMOTE the general welfare. It doesn’t say PROVIDE it.


4 posted on 05/02/2012 7:25:17 PM PDT by rfreedom4u (Democracy and islam are not compatible!)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

Promote the General Welfare of the US in no way sugests spending one cent on citizens as a payment for “welfare”!

I take it as a State Department function of words not dollars promoting the general welfare of the nation among foreign countries!


5 posted on 05/02/2012 7:30:26 PM PDT by dalereed
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To: faithhopecharity

Maybe this would fit:

President BARACK OBAMA was invited to address a major gathering of the American Indian Nation in upstate New York.

He spoke for almost an hour about his plans for increasing every Native American’s present standard of living. He referred to his time as a U.S. Senator and how he had voted for every Native American issue that came to the floor of the Senate.

Although President Obama was vague about the details of his plans, he seemed most enthusiastic and spoke eloquently about his ideas for helping his “red sisters and brothers.”

At the conclusion of his speech, the Tribes presented Obama with a plaque inscribed with his new Indian name, “Walking Eagle.”

The proud President Obama accepted the plaque and then departed in his motorcade to a fundraiser, waving to the crowds.

A news reporter later asked the group of chiefs how they came to select the new name they had given to the President....

They explained that “Walking Eagle” is the name given to a bird so full of shit it can no longer fly.


6 posted on 05/02/2012 7:31:03 PM PDT by RC2 (Buy American and support the Wounded Warrior Project whenever possible.)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

Not an expert by any means, but I thought “general welfare” was widely seen as a statement against corruption and favoritism in government. It’s not about giving people stuff, it’s about honest government.


7 posted on 05/02/2012 7:31:15 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Like Emmett Till, Trayvon Martin has become simply a stick with which to beat Whites.)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

The “general welfare” is actually specifically defined in the text of the Constitution: It consists of the powers expressly granted to the government, and written down so everyone can see them, that exist in the text of the Constitution and its amendments.


8 posted on 05/02/2012 7:33:05 PM PDT by TimSkalaBim
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

The key word in the term “general welfare” in my opinion, is “general”. It is only general when it benefits all in some measure, as in applying a just and fair system of laws and regulations. It is not general when you disadvantage one group to the benefit of another. Redistribution of wealth in any form is not promoting the general welfare.


9 posted on 05/02/2012 7:42:45 PM PDT by omni-scientist
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

What’s the difference between welfare, and hog trapping?


10 posted on 05/02/2012 7:44:10 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist ("Behold, I am against you, O arrogant one," Jeremiah 50:31)
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To: rfreedom4u

remember the dems believe that they can change the meanings of words to suit their goals and they have done that over they past 5 decades.


11 posted on 05/02/2012 7:46:48 PM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER
James Madison, the Father of the Constitution, elaborated upon this limitation in a letter to James Robertson:

"With respect to the two words "general welfare," I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators. If the words obtained so readily a place in the "Articles of Confederation," and received so little notice in their admission into the present Constitution, and retained for so long a time a silent place in both, the fairest explanation is, that the words, in the alternative of meaning nothing or meaning everything, had the former meaning taken for granted."

12 posted on 05/02/2012 7:50:55 PM PDT by gorush (History repeats itself because human nature is static)
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To: rfreedom4u

as I recall, “promote” was used in the preamble (which confers no powers on anybody) but “provide” appears in the spending clause (article 1 section 8). However, the supreme court has held that the latter does not empower the fed govt to spend on unconstitutional programs (not otherwise within the fed’s enumerated powers), see Butler v. US (1936) where the court overruled a fed agricultural program as not within the govt’s enumerated powers (even tho the court saw congress’ spending powers to be very broad insofar as its proper range of activities is concerned). In short, Madison wins this round and Jefferson loses. Or something like that. I’m in a hurry and always open to correction, and the Olde Gray Cell is getting a bit long in the tooth. (Ouch)


13 posted on 05/02/2012 7:54:52 PM PDT by faithhopecharity (remember when "Four more years!" was a credible campaign slogan for an incumbent?)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER
Providing for the "general welfare" is a stated objective, not an enumeration of power.

It simply provides a measure of whether the powers are being used as intended. It does not enumerate any power, and does not expand the scope of any enumerated power.

It means that the use of a power must be beneficial to all, not to one special interest group at the expense of everyone else.

14 posted on 05/02/2012 7:57:29 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: RC2

Ha! Thanks. (Will The Colonel catch it, then?)


15 posted on 05/02/2012 8:01:41 PM PDT by faithhopecharity (remember when "Four more years!" was a credible campaign slogan for an incumbent?)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

John Conyer has cited the “good and welfare clause” justification not long ago!


16 posted on 05/02/2012 8:11:43 PM PDT by Amagi (I challenge Barack Obama to call this Tea Party Patriot a "tea bagger" to my face.)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

John Conyer has cited the “good and welfare clause” justification not long ago!


17 posted on 05/02/2012 8:12:09 PM PDT by Amagi (I challenge Barack Obama to call this Tea Party Patriot a "tea bagger" to my face.)
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To: Ken H
Why not? It's how drug war is justified:

Oh, well in that case it's okay.
18 posted on 05/02/2012 8:28:43 PM PDT by andyk (Go Juan Pablo!)
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To: Ken H

I apologize I have not studied, nor have the time to study, the statute you quoted from. Sorry. But I do see in it reference to “importation” — imports involve both international relations and commerce. These are two of the federal govt’s enumerated powers (and just happen to be two that have been broadly interpreted by the supreme court). These matters would probably provide constitutional authority for Congress to pass this law (or at least parts of it, again I have not read the statute). In short, these are 2 independent constitutional bases for legislation in this area to possibly be upheld, OK. The “general welfare’ language Congress often includes....because (as I previously noted, a recent post in this tread) .. the Supreme Court has said that Congress has very broad power to spend our money when it finds that the purpose is “for the general welfare.” So, this helps make the spending aspexts of the statute OK with the court, in case the law is taken up the judicial branch by somebody. However, the inclusion of this “general welfare” language does nothing, or should do nothing, to make the statute OK on its more fundamental level — that being: is it doing something within the federal govt’s constitutionally-enumerated powers In The First Place. I hope I have somehow managed to type something reasonably clear and helpful here. Best regards,


19 posted on 05/02/2012 8:31:43 PM PDT by faithhopecharity (remember when "Four more years!" was a credible campaign slogan for an incumbent?)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

“The federal government has assumed great responsibility to tax and provide for our citizens under the interpreted authority of the general welfare clause in the Constitution. Our Departments of Transportation, Education, Agriculture, and Interior are all justified by the general welfare clause.”

Yet, somehow, such ideas were lost on the men who wrote and approved it, as well as their children.


20 posted on 05/02/2012 8:34:21 PM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: faithhopecharity

In fact, the general welfare clause says almost the opposite. It states one of the purposes of the Constitution (”to promote the General Welfare”) and then establishes a constitution of LIMITED powers. In other words, limited government promotes the general welfare.


21 posted on 05/02/2012 9:10:40 PM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: faithhopecharity

No one disputes Congress’s authority over imports. The expansive interpretation of the Commerce Clause - the substantial effects test - is the problem. If you accept the legitimacy of the controlled substances statute, then you have no constitutional basis for opposing federal control over education, the environment and health care.


22 posted on 05/02/2012 9:13:14 PM PDT by Ken H (Austerity is the irresistible force. Entitlements are the immovable object.)
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To: faithhopecharity
The U.S. Constitution's general welfare clause states: promote the general welfare, and provide for the common defense.

Liberals are taking critical dollars away from the "provide" requirements and spending it on the "promote" requirements.

23 posted on 05/03/2012 3:13:16 AM PDT by Real Cynic No More (OBAMA!!'s name is all caps as sarcasm to indicate a lack of respect, as he does not deserve it)
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To: faithhopecharity; SWAMPSNIPER; rfreedom4u; TimSkalaBim; ModelBreaker
An FR post from 2009:

Common Defense & General Welfare. The Meaning is Clear

24 posted on 05/04/2012 11:50:57 AM PDT by Jacquerie (No court will save us from ourselves.)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER
Is that what it is this week? I thought it was the necessary and proper clause in front of the Supreme Court.

-PJ

25 posted on 05/04/2012 11:54:28 AM PDT by Political Junkie Too (If you can vote for President, then your children can run for President.)
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To: Political Junkie Too

It’s really the “just because” clause!


26 posted on 05/04/2012 12:46:12 PM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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