Posted on 05/20/2011 8:58:22 AM PDT by ken5050
Frankly, you're the perfect person to intercede with before the throne of the Lord God in heaven. And simply let Him respond sovereignly within your life.
"G-d, Lord Yahweh, we invite and encourage Your Presence and Activity this very day in dalight's life. In the Messiah's Holy Name we pray."
Except that TN Nana's comments are religiously-based. And you've openly criticized her...("criticize," btw, is another for "bash.") Which means you've bashed her. You've bashed her religious views.
I always love it when a religious elitist comes on board these threads, gives "thou shalt" edicts like "Thou shalt not bash somebody else's faith" -- all after they've just bashed comments from other poster's religious faith.
So what do we do? Believe your "thou shalt" pulpit edicts? Or what you actually practice?
Well, that's interesting in light of your ongoing attacks vs. Tennessee Nana on this thread.
It seems your attacks against Nana have been based upon one thing: Her religious comments about Mormons. So you've launched your "attacks...based on the criteria that they are an" perceived anti-"Mormon".
If somebody is using solo criteria to critique, it seems you are saying...that's intolerable ("bigotry"). Yet it seems you likewise are using solo criteria -- only instead of "anti-Mormonism" it's your "anti-anti-Mormonism"...
Wanna explain your religious license to be intolerant (bigoted) toward Tennessee Nana's religious beliefs. Why are you given the freedom to exercise a solo criteria of an "anti-anti" position...but an "anti" position comes under your condemnation?
Why isn't that so obvious that you are being two-faced on this?
And this is, in your mind, HATE?
Can I say Obama is an idiot without HATING him?
Like THIS??
Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (, p.270).Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (, p. 119).Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" ( 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" ( 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" ( 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (, vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" ( 10:230).Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (, p. 255).Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (, 18:172).President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (, 10:127).James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (, p.182).President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (, vol. 3, p.282).More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (, p.316).President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (, vol. 2, p.196).
More liberal troll-like words. Liberals LOVE to "judge" inner-motivations of others -- like "animus." (A word you've also used in this thread). They also LOVE to exaggerate things that are not "abusive" -- and describe them as such.
Now I don't know if you've ever been abused or not; and this may not apply to you...
...but I've found that people -- those who haven't been abused -- seem to find it easier to accuse others of "abuse"...
...just like I've found it seems easier for Americans to claim they're being persecuted...
...when if they really were in certain countries or points of history, they would truly understand the stark contrasts between persecution, oppression, light oppression, abuse, verbal abuse, arguments, debates, and mild disagreements.
When you readily toss out words like "abuse" and apply them as accusations to Freepers like Elsie, you basically sabotage your own credibility to aptly size up a poster or situation. It's simply inflammatory accusatory rhetoric meant to serve as an ad hominent attack against the person.
When you can't restrain or refrain from such inflammatory rhetoric, you then come across as someone prone to engage in rhetoric that the Left loves to embrace.
No matter how conservative you may be inwardly, I've seen many conservatives resort to tactics they've learned from the Left. So don't be surprised when you're called on that in a forum like FR.
And yet, SOMEhow, they manage to ELECT rinos and liberals that just happen to be, ahem, MORMONs.
Let's address your concern re: stating that having a "true believing Mormon as "inherently untrustworthy" is not somebody that should be stated on a FR thread:
Point 1: Let's say the candidate is an open doctrinaire communist. He comes to me (let's say I'm a successful businessman who has benefitted from capitalism) & says: "If you check out my most closely-held tenets of my 'faith,' they state that you are an apostate from Marx. Every capitalistic creed is an abomination before the sovereign state. Your capitalistic leaders are corrupt. There are only two economic systems: the system of the devil (if he exists), capitalism; and the perfect ideal system, communism. I can expect your vote, then?"
Now ya wanna explain how the above is any different than a doctrinaire Mormon who subscribes to the Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith - History, verses 18-19? I asked the personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right — and which I should join. I was answered that I must join NONE of them, for they were ALL wrong, and the personage who addressed me said that ALL their creeds were an abomination in His sight: that those professors were ALL corrupt..." LDS cannot just take or leave for this is authoritative "Scripture"; this verse originates as the supposed description of the very foundation of the church--the First Vision of Joseph Smith. One of the top 4 teachings explained by every LDS missionary is the doctrine of the universal apostasy of the historic Christian church (they teach this right alongside their key doctrine of "restoration"). Any true-believing LDS candidate (not necessarily a Jack Mormon candidate) who approaches us historic Christians is saying: "You are an apostate; I am a restorationist built upon the complete ashes of your faith. Your creeds--all of them--are an 'abomination' before God. Your professing believers are 'corrupt.' As it says in the Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:9-10, there's only two churches...Ours, the Church of the Lamb; and yours, the Church of the devil. Now, that I've properly inspired you, Mr. Joe Voter, I can expect your vote on Tuesday, then?" [Just because this is NOT communicated face-to-face by an LDS candidate or somebody at the LDS grass roots level does not mean it's not being done millions of times each year as every Pearl of Great Price/Book of Mormon comes off the printing press in dozens of languages--all supported by tithing members...and, by the LDS missionary enterprise which is supported by every local ward & stake whereby all 60,000 LDS missionaries go door-to-door proclaiming their doctrine of alleged Christian apostasy...]
Point 2:: When the MSM questions like, “Mr. Romney, 'Do you believe you will be a god? Do you believe conservative voters from other churches are 'apostates?' Do believe that although polygamy is no longer practiced on earth, it's being practiced at now & for eternity in another dimension known as the celestial kingdom?'" -- are you going to label that these discussions are mute then?
Point 3:
If I... .
..(a) was a POTUS candidate from a commonly regarded "cultic group"; and
...(b) mislabel 75% of my voting base's primary faith tenets & claims as mere "apostate" status (Note: 75% of people claim to be "Christians" in the more mainline/Protestant/Catholic sense--& frankly, this % is higher in the Republican party)
Then...
Conclusion: I not only show open disdain for my voting base, but betray my ability to inspire confidence in my ability to accurately define a major world religion. If I cannot accurately define a major world religion, what confidence do I inspire re: my ability to handle national security issues, terrorist issues, & negotiation issues pertaining to another world religion like Islam? (Besides, how are LDS who in print openly label all Christians as “apostates” any different than Muslims who in print openly label all Christians as “infidels?”)
Let's talk about assumptions, shall we?
It seems you've fallen into one. One Jesus Christ openly critiqued.
You said: I have friends who are Mormon and they are truly GOOD people...
The Jesus of the Bible did NOT share that presumption. Not only re: Mormons...but any natural-born human...
He said: "'Why do you call me good?' Jesus answered. 'No one is good--except God alone.'" (Mark 10:18).
Who are we to believe? Jesus' pronouncement that "NO ONE" is good? Or yours?
Now Jesus wasn't saying He personally wasn't good (He was and is God, after all). He was addressing the misguided presumption behind the comment: That man is good…[I believe Jesus is addressed man’s isness at root…]
Jesus levels the playing field before the cross by undercutting any spiritual pride that presumes anybody from any religion doesn’t need Him as our great physician ("It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick...For I have NOT COME to call the righteous, but sinners."--Matthew 9:12)
Jesus is for the person who understands their personal cancerous diagnosis of sin.
Upon natural birth, we're all spiritually unhealthy and depraved
Yet that doesn't pre-empt people from all faiths accomplishing some degree of good works. I would quickly add, though, whatever “degree” that is, it’s vastly overstated. Why?
* Some folks do good works and give the credit for those works to God the Holy Spirit working through them – yet Christianity & some of the cults are usually the only ones who acknowledge the Holy Spirit to begin with;
* Some folks do outwardly good works and assume the credit for themselves, stealing God's glory. Theft of God's glory thereby defeats any act otherwise qualifying itself as "good"...
...which leads us directly back to a basic Mormon premise: Temple Mormons (not all Mormons, but temple Mormons) are essentially auditioning for godhood with good works. And with that, I say, that’s a self-defeating proposition. When a boomerang motive underlies good works, those works become selfish, disqualifying in God’s eyes the “goodness” of that work. God sees the heart, not just the outward outcome.
Hmm...
9/11 was almost a decade ago. In that time, how many slam-type comments have we seen on FR & elsewhere that lumps all Muslims into a group?
Have you been consistent? On how many of those threads did you enter therein, and proceed to accuse 1-2 posters of being "bigoted?"
Thousands of such threads?
Hundreds?
Dozens?
A handful?
None? (Except this thread?)
If the answer's the last one...my...how "bold" and courageous of you to take on a poster or two re: Mormonism when the way you just defined "bigotry" would give you a mountainful of posters to attack as "bigots"! (btw...yet another "fave" accusation per the liberal lexicon).
So. I'm "anxious" to hear on how many Islam & 9/11 threads you've lectured and properly frowned upon those who have lumped Muslims into a group.
Like RINOS Romney and huntsman, or dingy harry reid?
Defamation of their 'religion' comes from their own prophets.
The truth is an absolute shield for libel but frankly, the presence of a defined animus is what takes such behavior from boorishness to an offense that can be prosecuted for compensation in terms of cash.
So, you can't even handle the truth. Perhaps yours is the boorish behavior.
And, we have another volunteer named Colofornian, who joins Elsie and Tennessee Nana in an anti-Mormon smear campaign. As this isn't a debate about the facts, but rather pointing that this behavior is loathsome, boorish and reprehensible; I have also pointed out, that such behavior could become even actionable.
I would be as delighted as the next person here to see Mitt Romney defeated quickly and handily, but this campaign of trashing Mormonism to trash him is below contempt, below our standards and has no place on FR. I am no stranger to religious intolerance, bigotry and libelous statements. If I expect folks to say no to words like Christ Killer, or crap like that, then letting you call people child rapists and then associate that with Glenn or Mitt as a reason to hate these people. It is not acceptable.
Calling me a liberal because I use words you don't like is laughable. That is ok, bizarre but what ever floats your boat. I leave it to the readers to make up their own mind whether using the word animus automatically makes a person a liberal. :)
It is not an ad hominem attack to state that someone is posting libelous attacks and expressing pure religious bigotry on this site. Or when people have a pattern of hijacking threads with inappropriate or off topic posts. Such as Glenn Beck is a Mormon, lets trash Mormons. This tread was about Presidential Candidates traveling to Israel to attend an event. There are other threads where a discussion like this may be appropriate, but here it was not, and under any circumstances, Tennessee Nana's post was inappropriate.
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an offense that can be prosecuted for compensation in terms of cash.
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WOW
Ya thunk Joey Smith will sue me for cash ???
Last time someone “libelled” him by printing the “absolute truth” of his child rapes and adultery, Smith destroyed the printing press and burnt down the building...
Its hot and firey where Smith is
Do ya thunk he’ll send me a burning log in a FReepMail ???
I would be as delighted as the next person here to see Mitt Romney defeated quickly
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Well lets see kid
Using your very own logic
Mitt Romney is a Mormon
Only a bigot would not vote for a Mormon
Only an anti-Mormon would not vote for a Mormon
Only someone who hated mormons would not vote for Mitt
Therefore....
BTW Gov Sarah Palin is NOT a Mormon
“We’re not here to debate liberals. We do not want our pages filled with their arrogant, obnoxious, repugnant bile. Liberals, usurpers, and other assorted malcontents are considered unwelcome trolls on FR and their accounts and or posts will be summarily dismissed at the convenience of the site administrators.”
I would think a second reading of this would be more than helpful to you. If it sounds like a duck sort of thingy....
mmmm.. one of these names is not like the others, one of these name just isn't the same. Lets guess.
Lets see, Romney is a flip-flopping Rino, Huntsman is so amazingly RINO that he is likely to win Vermont against Romney, and Harry Reed is a Democrat. Huh. That must be the problem.
But, past that point, you seem to be arguing that all Mormons are the same, closet liberals. Planning to hang your hat on that? Maybe we have another volunteer.
Maybe we have another volunteer
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You throw that word around like it was a derogatory term
In America volunteers are honorable men and women who fight for our country
However Williard Mitt Romney is a TWO time draft dodger
Hardly an honorable “volunteer”..
Just a cowardly boy who spent 2 1/2 years during Nam o0n vacation in Paqris living in a mansion and driving a Citroen while the volunteers in these threade fought in his wimpy place
Flame away from that spot in Mommy’s basement, kid...
Tennessee Nana
US Veteran
100
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