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Was Obama an Indonesian citizen? [Evidence raises concerns over presidential qualification]
WND ^ | May 08, 2011 | Aaron Klein

Posted on 05/09/2011 8:35:43 PM PDT by RobinMasters

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To: melancholy

We know Barry came back to America alone and his grandmother was appointed his guardian in 1971. BHO Sr. returned to America at this time to assert his parental rights and object to the Soetoro adoption. The court ordered the original and Soetoro vital records sealed and the Obama COLB created. Obama’s name had been legally changed as well as the names of his parents, but his citizenship remained Indonesian. We know Obama remined Indonesian through his CT SSN. Obama’s refugee sponsor was HQ’d in CT in 1971 (a subsidiary of United Way, funded by the Annie E. Casey Foundation through its investments with UPS). Obama naturalized as a US citizen in the early 80’s. His complete immigation file with USCIS has all the details.


151 posted on 05/10/2011 11:51:46 AM PDT by SvenMagnussen (BHO II naturalized as U.S. Citizen after becoming an Indonesian National)
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To: melancholy

We know Barry came back to America alone and his grandmother was appointed his guardian in 1971. BHO Sr. returned to America at this time to assert his parental rights and object to the Soetoro adoption. The court ordered the original and Soetoro vital records sealed and the Obama COLB created. Obama’s name had been legally changed as well as the names of his parents, but his citizenship remained Indonesian. We know Obama remined Indonesian through his CT SSN. Obama’s refugee sponsor was HQ’d in CT in 1971 (a subsidiary of United Way, funded by the Annie E. Casey Foundation through its investments with UPS). Obama naturalized as a US citizen in the early 80’s. His complete immigation file with USCIS has all the details.


152 posted on 05/10/2011 11:52:05 AM PDT by SvenMagnussen (BHO II naturalized as U.S. Citizen after becoming an Indonesian National)
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To: Mr Rogers
The point was that moving to Sweden as a child and living there as a citizen to adulthood didn’t change her US status. Barry moving to Indonesia - even if he HAD been formally adopted - would not affect his US citizenship OR NBC status. He either had it at birth, or did not.

You seemed to have "forgotten" Obama already had a Kenyan citizenship at birth from a non-US citizenship father, which could be by both soil and blood, BUT definitely by blood or jus sanguinis, therefore, noway could Obama be a natural born US citizen.

You think he did not. OK, we disagree and after hundreds of posts, I’m not going to waste time trying to change your opinion. Let me know if you ever convince a court.

It turns out that I was expanding on your post to make things more clear about the Perkins v. Elg. Supreme Court case. That she was a natural born citizen by soil and blood, and the US Supreme Courts have agreed with me.

153 posted on 05/10/2011 11:54:54 AM PDT by Red Steel
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To: curiosity

Since Barry has sealed his records, we don’t know whether he got a foreign scholarship or not. But they were frequently given out in those days, especially to foreign students with connections, who might be important down the road. That would apply to Soetero, as it had earlier applied to Obama.

Rhodes Scholarships (in the other direction) were just one form such scholarships took. Occidental College had a dorm for foreign students (keeping them separate was common at the time), and many of those were on scholarships.

I don’t see why you pretend to question something that was commonplace at that time.


154 posted on 05/10/2011 11:55:58 AM PDT by Cicero
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To: OldDeckHand; Jim Robinson
I'm going to continue to fight FOR sanity, common sense, rationality and factual accuracy.

Maybe you should include Jim Robinson, when commenting on his thoughts and deeply held beliefs.
155 posted on 05/10/2011 11:58:12 AM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Tennessee Nana
OBAMA AND STAN ANN WERE NEVER MARRIED

While I agree with you on the other points, I have to disagree here. Perhaps in the eyes of God they weren't married but in the opinion of the court they were at least assumed legally married or the court would not have heard the divorce pleading. The court demands signed and sealed documents so there had to be something she showed the judge. Known bigamy = annulment. Believed marriage = divorce.

156 posted on 05/10/2011 11:59:20 AM PDT by bgill (Kenyan Parliament - how could a man born in Kenya who is not even a native American become the POTUS)
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To: OldDeckHand
So, your defense of Jerome Corsi as a 9/11 Truther is - "Well, he's not really a 9/11 Truther, he just thinks that two planes flying at 550MPH couldn't have fallen the WTC, like the government said they did"?

And your argument comes from the Lefty Loonies at Soros Media Matters. I explained what transpired in that interview accurately.

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. I've listened to the Alex Jones interview. Corsi is a quack.

Well the same could be said about you quacking like a duck must be duck.

157 posted on 05/10/2011 12:01:19 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Brown Deer
"Prove it, because if so, "

Prove it? Seriously, are you that obtuse? Now you're arguing that Barack Obama Sr. is not the father? Good Lord.

'he is NOT a natural born citizen, is he? "

Ah, yep, he is. There is not a single US court case that has held that to qualify as a natural-born citizen, both parents must be American citizens. It's just more blather in birtherland.

There is however, a case that holds...

"Based upon the language of Article II, Section 1, Clause 4 and the guidance provided by Wong Kim Ark, we conclude that persons born within the borders of the United States are "natural born Citizens" for Article II, Section 1 purposes, regardless of the citizenship of their parents. Just as a person "born within the British dominions [was] a natural-born British subject" at the time of the framing of the U.S. Constitution, so too were those "born in the allegiance of the United States [] natural-born citizens"

emphasis added

Gee, how about that?

The interpretation of the 14A by the courts couldn't be clearer. If you can come up with a Supreme Court case, Appellate Case or state case that says otherwise, please share it with everyone, won't you?

158 posted on 05/10/2011 12:03:17 PM PDT by OldDeckHand
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To: Red Steel
"And your argument comes from the Lefty Loonies at Soros Media Matters. I explained what transpired in that interview accurately. "

No, my argument comes for Corsi's OWN WORDS in a interview that is available for review on YOUTUBE.

159 posted on 05/10/2011 12:06:06 PM PDT by OldDeckHand
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To: OldDeckHand

You forgot to answer the question. Your refusal to answer the following the questions indicates your deep and abiding hatred of America. Given this hatred, you should consider immigrating to Communist China. Maybe you could run for President there.

How many different countries has your president been a citizen of?

Do you believe that a person who has questionable allegiance to the United States of America should be the President of our country?

Do you believe that your president has questionable allegiance to the United States?

Do you believe that only a natural born citizen as stated in the Constitution of the United States can be President of our country?

Do you believe that your president is a natural born citizen of the United States?

Do you believe that Barack Hussein 0bama should be removed from office?

Why do you hate America?


160 posted on 05/10/2011 12:07:48 PM PDT by Plummz (pro-constitution, anti-corruption)
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To: OldDeckHand; Jim Robinson
'he is NOT a natural born citizen, is he? "

Ah, yep, he is.


Why do you keep calling Jim a liar?

One of the constitutional requirements for the office of the presidency is that he be a "natural born citizen." This was put into place by the founders to keep foreigners or persons who do not bear a non-questionable allegiance to the US Constitution out. Obviously, and admittedly Barack Hussein Obama was born to a foreign citizen and is not 100% American. He's half-American, half-African and all Marxist. He obviously bears no allegiance whatsoever to the US Constitution and is working overtime to destroy it. He's a usurper and should be removed from office. He is exactly the kind of fraud/usurper the founders feared.
161 posted on 05/10/2011 12:08:15 PM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Plummz
"Why do you hate America?"

Why do you hate intelligence?

Failing to answer the question must mean that you love stupidity, ignorance and intellectual vacancy. Just saying.

162 posted on 05/10/2011 12:10:18 PM PDT by OldDeckHand
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To: OldDeckHand

Earth to ODH, I already seen the video since I already posted what transpired in the interview at 141.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2717548/posts?page=141#141


163 posted on 05/10/2011 12:11:55 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Brown Deer; Jim Robinson
"Why do you keep calling Jim a liar?"

Why do you keep acting so patently dishonestly?

You have issued straw man argument after straw man argument. It's beyond contemptible and beneath ANYONE who describes themselves as conservative.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Everyone is an entitled to an opinion, but they are not entitled to their own facts. In this case, the facts and the LAW as it exists today ARE CRYSTAL CLEAR.

The ONLY WAY to remove a sitting president is through impeachment in the House and conviction in the Senate.

164 posted on 05/10/2011 12:13:24 PM PDT by OldDeckHand
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To: bluecat6
I think you're correct on everything except that Sr. wasn't so dumb as not to realize he was in the middle of some marriage ceremony or the need for it. He probably didn't list Barry on his paperwork until ‘64 because he didn't know if the child lived to birth or what it's name was or if it was a boy or girl. None of his U of HI friends knew anything about Stanley Ann or the baby because the Dunhams had shipped her 3000 miles away and kept her there just as you said to keep him from claiming their grandchild. With the divorce, INS would demand a full accounting and that's when he could also use the anchor to extend his stay. Before the divorce, imagine what the INS would have said if he told them he'd gotten some 17 year old white girl preggers, they had a shotgun wedding, he was so undesirable that her family shipped her off, and he has no idea or cares if the kid is alive and well. If that little story had come out, the INS would have yanked the welcome mat from under his feet years before. It was in Sr.’s best interest to keep mum on that little escapade.
165 posted on 05/10/2011 12:16:10 PM PDT by bgill (Kenyan Parliament - how could a man born in Kenya who is not even a native American become the POTUS)
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To: Red Steel
"Earth to ODH, I already seen the video since I already posted what transpired in the interview at 141."

I don't know how anyone can listen to that interview, especially the entire relevant comments, and not conclude that Corsi is a truther. He says...

For me, Alex, what really tips the scale, is you've got science that the conventional hypothesis doesn't explain...that's what rattles the cage".

That's what he says. Verbatim.

166 posted on 05/10/2011 12:18:46 PM PDT by OldDeckHand
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To: SvenMagnussen
Obama naturalized as a US citizen in the early 80’s. His complete immigation file with USCIS has all the details.

Thanks, Sven.

Naturalized? Supposedly, it wasn't young 0b0z0's fault that he lost his USA citizenship. The question then would be, did young 0b0z0 go through the process outlined in rxsid's post, #76?

If 0b0z0 renounced the US citizenship through process, what now?

167 posted on 05/10/2011 12:18:46 PM PDT by melancholy (Papa Alinsky, Enslavement Specialist)
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To: Red Steel

Corsi rejected 9/11 truther arguments. It was the Obama campaign that smeared him:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=72787


168 posted on 05/10/2011 12:21:18 PM PDT by Fantasywriter
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To: OldDeckHand

Where's Sr.'s signature you keep talking about?

169 posted on 05/10/2011 12:26:39 PM PDT by bgill (Kenyan Parliament - how could a man born in Kenya who is not even a native American become the POTUS)
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To: Plummz

You need to show proper respect and answer the questions posed to you if you expect anyone to answer yours:

How many different countries has your president been a citizen of?

Do you believe that a person who has questionable allegiance to the United States of America should be the President of our country?

Do you believe that your president has questionable allegiance to the United States?

Do you believe that only a natural born citizen as stated in the Constitution of the United States can be President of our country?

Do you believe that your president is a natural born citizen of the United States?

Do you believe that Barack Hussein 0bama should be removed from office?

Your continued refusal to engage these issues indicates a deep hatred of America on your part.

Why do you hate America?


170 posted on 05/10/2011 12:27:24 PM PDT by Plummz (pro-constitution, anti-corruption)
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To: OldDeckHand
For me, Alex, what really tips the scale, is you've got science that the conventional hypothesis doesn't explain...that's what rattles the cage".

And he's talking about the iron spheres that could only be caused by higher temperatures. As I said above, Corsi left open the door that some other fuels were already present inside the buildings that caused the iron nodules. It could be anything from furniture to paints and solvents that burned hotter than jet fuel, and he was playing to the audience.

The reason you post stuff from Lefty LoonyVille is to attack Corsi because he wrote books and articles that are detrimental to Obama and his silly and BS nativity story.

171 posted on 05/10/2011 12:29:42 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: bgill
Where's Sr.'s signature you keep talking about?

It must be the drugs...
172 posted on 05/10/2011 12:30:49 PM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep
It's FAR easier to get financial aid as a black American student than it is as a foreign student.

It's FAR easier to get financial aid as a black Kenyan/Indonesian muslim from a Saudi prince than as a half white American student.

173 posted on 05/10/2011 12:31:16 PM PDT by bgill (Kenyan Parliament - how could a man born in Kenya who is not even a native American become the POTUS)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep
It's FAR easier to get financial aid as a black American student than it is as a foreign student.

It's FAR easier to get financial aid as a black Kenyan/Indonesian muslim from a Saudi prince than as a half white American student.

174 posted on 05/10/2011 12:31:16 PM PDT by bgill (Kenyan Parliament - how could a man born in Kenya who is not even a native American become the POTUS)
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To: curiosity; LucyT; melancholy; RobinMasters; Polarik; Candor7; opentalk; bgill; Hotlanta Mike; ...
...a US citizen child does not lose his citizenship by virtue of being adopted by a foreigner.

To curiosity:

First, you are assuming that Obama was a US citizen before his adoption. We do not know that for a fact, since he's never shown us a bona fide long form birth certificate nor any other credible evidence to show that he was a US citizen at any point in his life. All the documents he has shown us are likely forgeries.

Secondly, the constitution requires that a president be a natural born citizen. To be a natural born citizen, he cannot have had dual citizenship at any point in his life. So citizenship of Indonesia, even if he had American citizenship simultaneous to it, would make him constitutionally ineligible for the presidency.

The reason for the "natural born citizen" requirement for president in the Constitution is to assure that the chief executive officer of United States government has never had any loyalty or allegiance to any foreign country.

Sorry, curiosity, the United States offers some wonderful opportunities for foreigners coming here, but the presidency of the country is non among them.

175 posted on 05/10/2011 12:33:52 PM PDT by justiceseeker93
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To: curiosity; LucyT; melancholy; RobinMasters; Polarik; Candor7; opentalk; bgill; Hotlanta Mike; ...
...a US citizen child does not lose his citizenship by virtue of being adopted by a foreigner.

To curiosity:

First, you are assuming that Obama was a US citizen before his adoption. We do not know that for a fact, since he's never shown us a bona fide long form birth certificate nor any other credible evidence to show that he was a US citizen at any point in his life. All the documents he has shown us are likely forgeries.

Secondly, the constitution requires that a president be a natural born citizen. To be a natural born citizen, he cannot have had dual citizenship at any point in his life. So citizenship of Indonesia, even if he had American citizenship simultaneous to it, would make him constitutionally ineligible for the presidency.

The reason for the "natural born citizen" requirement for president in the Constitution is to assure that the chief executive officer of United States government has never had any loyalty or allegiance to any foreign country.

Sorry, curiosity, the United States offers some wonderful opportunities for foreigners coming here, but the presidency of the country is not among them.

176 posted on 05/10/2011 12:34:58 PM PDT by justiceseeker93
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To: bgill
Who pinged the trolls?

I did. I always summon my students to nip at the heels of the Conservatives on this site.

Papa Alinsky, Troll at Large

177 posted on 05/10/2011 12:35:09 PM PDT by melancholy (Papa Alinsky, Enslavement Specialist)
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To: OldDeckHand

If he’s not in there legally, then he’s not president so he should be read his rights while being handcuffed and thrown in jail.

Impeachment is for a POTUS that is in there legally.


178 posted on 05/10/2011 12:37:14 PM PDT by MagnoliaB
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To: danamco; Brown Deer

Dear FRiends,
Don’t you get it? According to his followers, obama don’t NEED no steenking birth cerificate. He is...an...earthling, a “citizen” of the underworld, (LITERALLY,) a global criminal, and that, to some people, is all it takes.


179 posted on 05/10/2011 12:38:27 PM PDT by MestaMachine (If you want to pillage,plunder,destroy, blaspheme,or defile, become a muslim, or name yourself obama)
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To: justiceseeker93

S/he isn’t that curious.


180 posted on 05/10/2011 12:42:32 PM PDT by melancholy (Papa Alinsky, Enslavement Specialist)
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To: OldDeckHand; Fantasywriter
Oh ODH, it certianly looks like Corsi has rejected the 911 Truther argument. Tsk tsk...suckered by Loons on the left. See post 168.

Corsi rejected 9/11 truther arguments. It was the Obama campaign that smeared him:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=72787

Thank Fantasywriter. :-)

181 posted on 05/10/2011 12:42:49 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: OldDeckHand
Wherever he traveled, and whomever paid for it or his education, has absolutely no legal bearing on his American citizenship statutes.

You're right, except that information could very well lead to exactly what his citizenship status is.

182 posted on 05/10/2011 12:44:12 PM PDT by bgill (Kenyan Parliament - how could a man born in Kenya who is not even a native American become the POTUS)
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To: OldDeckHand
Wherever he traveled, and whomever paid for it or his education, has absolutely no legal bearing on his American citizenship statutes.

You're right, except that information could very well lead to exactly what his citizenship status is.

183 posted on 05/10/2011 12:44:15 PM PDT by bgill (Kenyan Parliament - how could a man born in Kenya who is not even a native American become the POTUS)
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To: faucetman

Yes but, anything that shows the fraud is a good thing. Felonies lead to impeachment or resignation.


184 posted on 05/10/2011 12:47:33 PM PDT by esquirette ("Our hearts are restless until they find rest in Thee." ~ Augustine)
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To: Red Steel; Fantasywriter
Sorry champ, but if anyone is a "sucker" here, it's you.

Who am I to believe, World Nut Daily's story, or my "lying ears". Corsi's OWN words captured for eternity in that Alex Jones interview, are self-evident.

No matter how much he tried to walk those statements back later (IF he tried to walk them back), he still made those statements.

How can one be "smeared" by their own words? Res ipsa loquitu

185 posted on 05/10/2011 12:49:30 PM PDT by OldDeckHand
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To: justiceseeker93

“Secondly, the constitution requires that a president be a natural born citizen. To be a natural born citizen, he cannot have had dual citizenship at any point in his life. So citizenship of Indonesia, even if he had American citizenship simultaneous to it, would make him constitutionally ineligible for the presidency.”

Sorry, justice, this is not true. Any country can confer citizenship on anyone it wishes. If Bolivia confers citizenship on one of our candidates, you think that would mean he is suddenly ineligible? Nope.

The candidate would have had to apply, renew, or voluntarily show allegiance to the other country As An Adult in order to have his natural born citizenship, or any citizenship status, be called into question. Conferring foreign citizenship on someone by dint of parents or spouse is a nonissue for USA citizens.

Application to the Obama situation: his purported Indonesian citizenship as a child is a nonissue. However, if he renewed his Indonesian passport after age 18, and/or traveled under it to Pakistan, or applied to college as a foreigner, these facts would, if not outwardly disqualify him, make him a very unattractive and disloyal candidate for leadership in this country. He could not win if this were finally to be proven.


186 posted on 05/10/2011 12:50:46 PM PDT by Yaelle
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To: OldDeckHand

Give it up man. When you rely on BS from the left, you get burned.


187 posted on 05/10/2011 12:51:09 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: curiosity

Ward Churchill is that you?


188 posted on 05/10/2011 12:55:16 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: SvenMagnussen

Refugee sponsor??? Now there’s the bombshell of the day. Please explain how we know this to be true? Where’s his immigration file?


189 posted on 05/10/2011 12:55:46 PM PDT by bgill (Kenyan Parliament - how could a man born in Kenya who is not even a native American become the POTUS)
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To: Red Steel; melancholy

You’re welcome.

As I believe it was mel who pointed out, there is something on this thread that worries the trolls. They are really manning the Ack Ack guns, aren’t they? Is it the fact that, at his USA-hating marxist ‘those-aren’t-my-people’ mother’s urging, Barry at some point DID renounce his American citizenship? What boy doesn’t want his mother’s approval? And how better to win it than by following in her rabidly anti-American footselps?

Or is it that he applied to Occidental as a foreigner? Hard to see how he got into the foreigners’ dorm otherwise, isn’t it?

It’s kind of nice to see them so stirred up again. It means Barry’s troubles are far from all behind him.


190 posted on 05/10/2011 12:59:39 PM PDT by Fantasywriter
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To: Red Steel

Thanks for your clarification in #141.


191 posted on 05/10/2011 1:00:18 PM PDT by Faith
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To: OldDeckHand

Don’t know, don’t care. Wherever he traveled, and whomever paid for it or his education, has absolutely no legal bearing on his American citizenship statutes.

Yeah but we want to know more about this a$$ clown of a person acting as President. I find it odd you don’t.


192 posted on 05/10/2011 1:01:01 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: Fantasywriter

footselps = footsteps


193 posted on 05/10/2011 1:01:15 PM PDT by Fantasywriter
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To: melancholy

Good one.


194 posted on 05/10/2011 1:01:38 PM PDT by bgill (Kenyan Parliament - how could a man born in Kenya who is not even a native American become the POTUS)
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To: OldDeckHand
World Nut Daily's story...

I never heard of them. Are you referring to a story from yourself?
195 posted on 05/10/2011 1:02:12 PM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: bgill
SIGH
196 posted on 05/10/2011 1:02:23 PM PDT by GregNH (Re-Elect "No Body")
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To: Brown Deer
He's being factually accurate.
197 posted on 05/10/2011 1:04:27 PM PDT by GregNH (Re-Elect "No Body")
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To: bgill
"You're right, except that information could very well lead to exactly what his citizenship status is. "

Probably not. As I cited in a previous post to another person, it is extremely difficult to lose one's citizenship status. Irrespective of what you do, you must do "it" with the intent of expatriating yourself to actually be viewed as expatriating yourself.

See Post #66 for the relevant cites, and pay particular attentions to the following paragraphs at 8 USC...

"...A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality..."

Thousands of American Jews who enjoy dual-US/Israeli citizenship actually have been members of the Israeli army and HAVE NOT lost their US citizenship. Why, because they didn't intend to forsake their US citizenship and that's the legal standard - intent.

And, there is a Supreme Court case that held fighting for Japan during WWII against the US didn't automatically forfeit American citizenship, if that citizenship was obtained at birth.

More information can be found at...

Advice about Possible Loss of U.S. Citizenship and Dual Nationality

..but, the relevnat section is this...

The premise that a person intends to retain U.S. citizenship is not applicable when the individual:
formally renounces U.S. citizenship before a consular officer;
serves in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities with the United States;
takes a policy level position in a foreign state; is convicted of treason; or
performs an act made potentially expatriating by statute accompanied by conduct which is so inconsistent with retention of U.S. citizenship that it compels a conclusion that the individual intended to relinquish U.S. citizenship. (Such cases are very rare.)

It's very, very hard to lose your citizenship unless you want to lose your citizenship.

198 posted on 05/10/2011 1:04:40 PM PDT by OldDeckHand
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To: OldDeckHand

How is the travel agenda of Obama’s mother relevant to OBama’s citizenship? Where she was in 1964, or why she was there, is immaterial to her son’s citizenship, is it not?

What happened to her passport records, to be in the Philippines in 1964 she needed a passport. Got it? What else would her missing passport records show?


199 posted on 05/10/2011 1:04:42 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: OldDeckHand

By all means, you go with the Obama campaign smear. I’ll believe Corsi himself, as reported by the site he works for. During the shameful Kerry presidential campaign of lies and dishonor, Corsi showed himself to be a man of integrity. That’s more than I can say for Obama and his supporters.


200 posted on 05/10/2011 1:04:48 PM PDT by Fantasywriter
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