Posted on 12/18/2014 8:05:16 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
Terrible findings in the torture report "are not who we are," John Kerry claims. Well, here's a U.S. history lesson.
It’s comforting for those whose actions are not aligned with their stated values to believe that what one does in real life is not what ultimately defines who one really is. It’s nice to think who we are is determined not by the things we did the day before, but by the stated ideals we hope to aspire to fulfill, starting tomorrow. In a nation-state founded by settler-colonial Protestants, the argument is familiar – it’s what’s deep down inside that gets one up into heaven, not the good or genocidal nature of what one does down here on Earth – and as with any half-decent lie, it’s relatable: as fallible human beings, we’d all rather like to believe that we’re not as bad as we are but as good as we say we would like to be.
While founded on the ethnic cleansing of the continent’s original inhabitants and the enslavement of its African workforce, the news – or rather, confirmation – that the CIA employed a revolting range of “enhanced” torture techniques in the wake of 9/11 is being portrayed by some as a vile exception to the United States’ otherwise exceptional history; a “stain on our values and history,” in the words of Senator Dianne Feinstein, whose committee released the report detailing the agency’s use of near-drownings and mock executions and sexual abuse to humiliate and demoralize a foreign “other” under the guise of gathering intelligence. These practices, the terrible things this country has again and again been shown to do, “are not who we are,” added Secretary of State John Kerry. Indeed, “the awful facts of this report” do not even “represent who they are,”(continued)
(Excerpt) Read more at salon.com ...
Charles Davis is a writer and producer in Los Angeles whose work has been published by outlets including Al Jazeera, The New Inquiry and Vice.
For liberal, torture is hearing the Ten Commandments spoken aloud and seeing them posted in public places.
Yeah, torture is wrong. So Charles Davis follows his messiah and he is A-okay with droning their sorry backsides.
I’m glad we tortured jihadis. They behead children. There is no comparison.
Stop it! Stop it! I’ll sign anything! Just no more tortured writing by Charles Davis!
I agree- this is EXACTLY who we are and we should let the world know it.
If you kill our people, and lead and organization that wants to kill more, and are plotting those things with others, we WILL use whatever means necessary to coerce NON-CITIZENS to spill the beans.
We don’t have torture camps, our prisons are heaven compared to third world countries, but the people who gather intelligence are not the same.
Other countries torture ANYONE for ANY REASON or even if they JUST FEEL LIKE IT. (ACTUAL torture, not just making them uncomfortable)
We do it (and only the torture-lite variety) only when more lives are at stake.
These people are friggin' ridiculous. If it was near-drowning, why would they make the people conducting the procedure go through the same procedure during their training?
Call it “enhanced interrogation” or “torture” or “being big meanies.” I couldn’t care less about a few filthy raghead vermin being waterboarded. I couldn’t care less if they had been stretched on the rack or burned with red-hot pokers. If it saved American lives, it was worth it.
And yes, it IS “who we are,” if by that you mean a people who rise to the demands of the situation and do what’s necessary to serve the greater good. This is WAR folks. I hardly think it’s any crueler to torture information out of a prisoner than it is to shoot him in the belly or blow him to pieces with a grenade. We do things in war that we would never do under other circumstances. That’s why it’s a bad idea to start a war with us.
And who are the people throwing stones at us? They are the very people who started this war in the first place, and who think nothing of slaughtering schoolchildren, raping women, and regularly beheading anyone who gets in their way. They have ZERO claim to any moral high ground.
Shove up your collective Obamaholes, Salon.
YOU and your ill-educated marshmallow majors cohorts are who we are NOT.
The only thing you’ve done for this nation is to tear it down.
Go away to some place more befitting of your intellect (perhaps Iran or Afghanistan), buy a few camels, and try to do your thing whilst living with the world’s most primative and evil religion.
So white American males are all racist rapist torturing mass-murderers, every last one of them. Everyone else qualifies for sainthood. Got it.
Navy Seals undergo “waterboarding”aspart of their training.
They seem to be doing OK...
It wasn’t waterboarding that got KSM to crack. It was sleep deprivation. So that must be torture too.
So if we know that someone is going to nuke NYC, let’s make sure that he gets enough sleep the night before. And get him a blanket and teddy bear too.
Is that who we are?
Effing Idiots.
The real truth is that some are ok with this and some are not. Just like abortion,or the Bible and Jesus, or gay marriage, or the value of government, or what is right or wrong, or good or evil and on and on. The truth - such will never be resolved in this life. Too talk about such is a waste of time and energy.
Would it have been ok for the government of Paki to have tortured someone with guilty knowledge for the chance to stop the murder of 148 students and teachers?
“The same document that ostensibly prohibits torture also defined an African slave as three-fifths of a person – and even then, only for purposes of bolstering the political power of those who enslaved them:”
In an article full of distortions, this one is a gem. The author obviously has absolutely no idea what the 3/5’s compromise was about.
I guess he forgot about the Indians that slaughtered white folk. One of my ancestors was hunting with some friends in the 1750's in Pennsylvania when they happened upon some Indians scalping 5 children. The Indians ran. Two of the children died. The story is part of historical record.
and the enslavement of its African workforce
Only 5% of the slaves that were traded came to colonial America. They were sold to slavers by the winning tribe. Most slaves were sold to places like the Caribbean and Brazil. (Surprise! Surprise! As per Wikipedia)
I'm certain the author won't let facts sway his rant.
Yea yea yea, heard it all before. The sins of all humanity from the beginning of time until the present day are to be blamed on this one single nation of less than 300 years.
No mention of the evils said nation managed to eradicate.
This rich coming from a Liberal.
That is where their feelings of moral superiority come from. There ideals and and good intensions are their only claim to moral superiority over the Conservatives.
All of their good intensions have done for this country is create chaos and misery. Their actions, all of their feel good programs that were supposed to create the "Great Society" have locked the poor in their poverty. Their ideals of equality have murdered millions of unborn children. In their ideal of emancipating the negro they have enslaved the negro to the Democrat Party and ensured his place in the lower classes.
He is correct that actions are more important than words. To bad his view point has missed the mark because he is blinded by his point of perspective.
No matter how bad their program performs, no matter how costly the failure they justify continuing the effort because of their good intensions. .
I have no problems with torturing anyone who thinks that it’s OK to behead a child.
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