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To: satan69

I’m reposting this from the comments section of the ABC story posted above. It’s well-worth the read...

The meaning of the term-of-art ‘natural born citizen’ has been addressed, and confirmed by the US Supreme Court. The idea that all persons who are a citizen at birth, are ‘natural born citizens’ can not possibly be accepted for the simple reason that NO part of the Constitution can be interpreted in such a way as to make any part of the Constitution irrelevant. What that means is that the Constitution MUST be interpreted in such a way that every word in relevant. The idea that ‘citizen at birth’ equates to ‘natural born citizen’ ignores the word ‘natural’. If the intention was otherwise, they would have simply said a ‘born citizen’, or a ‘citizen at birth’ or ‘born a citizen’. So it is clear they intended something else. So - what does the word ‘natural’ mean in the context of ‘natural born citizen’? There are two types of law. There is ‘positive law’ - this is man-made law, such as the Constitution, laws from Congress, state law, local ordinances, and so on. And then there is ‘natural law’ - this is the law of nature, or the divine. An example would be when the founders wrote the Declaration of Independence, and stated - “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”. That is a form of natural law. So, the term ‘natural born citizen’ means EXACTLY what it says, a citizen at birth according to natural law.OK - what is a citizen by natural law? Remember, a natural law is one that is unwritten. So a citizen by natural law, would be a citizen that would require no man made ‘positive’ law to be a citizen. So, when is someone a citizen without need of any positive law? When they can be nothing else. Does that sound familiar? Ever heard someone answer a question with the word ‘naturally’, because the answer could be nothing else? “Does Monday come after Sunday? Naturally!”. Who can be nothing other than a citizen at birth, and therefore requires no positive law? There are 4 basic variables governing citizenship. 1) born in or out of a country. 2) Both parents are citizens. 3) One parent is a citizen. 4) Neither parent is a citizen. The first (where born) is combined with the other 3 to determine whether or not a child is a citizen at birth. There are laws written to govern every situation - except one. The only situation not covered by positive law is when a child is born in a country, and both parents are citizens of that country. Why? Because no law is required, the child is a citizen ‘naturally’. Both side want to ignore this FACT. Maybe where a person is born shouldn’t really matter. I’ve seen many immigrants who are much more patriotic than natural born American’s. But there is a process to go thru if that is the case, and that process is the Amendment process. But that probably wouldn’t go through. So what do they do? They simply ignore that part of the Constitution. The real danger is what part do the decide to ignore next?


7 posted on 03/21/2013 5:08:16 PM PDT by HMS Surprise (Chris Christie can STILL go straight to hell.)
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To: HMS Surprise; null and void; Red Steel

#7! BTTT


14 posted on 03/21/2013 5:25:22 PM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: HMS Surprise

That is why the court said it didn’t need to rule on MINOR V. HAPPERSETT, Both parents were Americans thus she was a Natural born citizen.... I find it strange how they expect for the constution to define words, It’s not a dictionary!


28 posted on 03/21/2013 6:42:21 PM PDT by satan69
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To: HMS Surprise

Geez, my eyes!

Can you repost that with some paragraph breaks?


32 posted on 03/21/2013 7:15:36 PM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: HMS Surprise; Absolutely Nobama; aragorn; Art in Idaho; Aurorales; autumnraine; azishot; ...
Constitutional Eligibility

37 posted on 03/21/2013 7:37:15 PM PDT by null and void (If the government is so worried about civil disturbance, why are they working so hard to disturb us?)
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To: HMS Surprise; null and void
"So, when is someone a citizen without need of any positive law? When they can be nothing else.

Excellent.

Thanks for the Ping, Nully.

61 posted on 03/22/2013 5:13:28 AM PDT by Flotsam_Jetsome (No more usurpers.)
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To: HMS Surprise

Great comment.


62 posted on 03/22/2013 5:16:14 AM PDT by PA-RIVER
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To: HMS Surprise

BookMark


63 posted on 03/22/2013 5:18:04 AM PDT by thesearethetimes... ("Courage, is fear that has said its prayers." Dorothy Bernard)
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To: HMS Surprise

To back up your post....

The US citizens of Puerto Rico are ‘citizens at birth’. From the moment they are born they are US citizens.

But they are naturalized citizens. Puerto Rico citizens fall under collective naturalization.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rican_citizenship

http://juliorvarela.com/2011/01/30/the-1917-jones-act-puerto-ricans-as-us-citizens/

Many government related documents are clear about the fact that Puerto Ricans are US citizens but they are so under an act of Congress for collective naturalization.

Example:

www.cms.gov/smdl/downloads/SMD06012.pdf

Page 4

“*Puerto Rico (if born on or after January 13, 1941);

Note: If the document shows the individual was born in Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands of the U.S., or the Northern Mariana Islands before these areas became part of the U.S., the individual may be a collectively naturalized citizen. Collective naturalization occurred on certain dates listed for each of the territories. *See additional requirements for Collective Naturalization.”

So it is very clear - citizen at birth is NOT the same as natural born Citizen. The situation of Puerto Rico demonstrates that fact.

Bret Baier misrepresented this fact in his blog posting below:

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/special-report-bret-baier/blog/2012/05/31/bret-explains-natural-born-citizen-requirements-president-and-vice-president

“They’re all natural born U.S. citizens. That also includes people who are born in Puerto Rico and people who were born in states before they became states. Born in Hawaii in 1950, a decade before statehood? You’re a natural born U.S. citizen.”

No Bret, the people born in Puerto Rico are NOT natural born Citizens. They are naturalized citizens.

If you are a naturalized citizen - it is impossible for you to be a ‘natural born Citizen’. The two are mutually exclusive.


75 posted on 03/22/2013 8:28:17 AM PDT by bluecat6 ("All non-denial denials. They doubt our ancestry, but they don't say the story isn't accurate. ")
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